Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes producer and former executive at 20th Century Fox, Susan Cartsonis

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” host Kevin Goetz sits down with Susan Cartsonis, a renowned producer and former studio executive known for championing women’s stories in Hollywood. From 20th Century Fox to independent producing, Susan has been behind hits like What Women Want, Where the Heart Is, Nell, Dying Young, and Aquamarine. She shares her journey in the film industry, her passion for storytelling, and her commitment to bringing diverse perspectives to the screen.

Susan Cartsonis on the importance of inclusive stories:

Entertainment elevates us. It inspires us. It makes us feel that everything’s possible and women in the world need that as well. Our movies go where we have no diplomatic relations internationally. They speak to cultures, they change people’s DNA. It’s really, really important and it’s important to have it to uplift the people who it’s about and also to educate, but not educate in a didactic way, in a way that just sort of infiltrates people’s souls and changes the way that they think about things and think about people.

From Theater to Hollywood Executive: Susan’s Early Career

Susan’s journey into the film industry began after her theater studies. She recalls her start as a reader at 20th Century Fox in New York: “I love to read. I love good books. And I was getting to read these books. I read books like The Handmaid’s Tale. I got to read all kinds of books that later became things. I read Sleeping with the Enemy, which I gave a strong recommend to, said it was a Hitchcockian thriller, and later got to champion it because my career evolved.”

One of Susan’s most memorable moments came when she stood up to Barry Diller in a high-stakes meeting:

“I said, I think audiences will come see it. And it was an out of body experience. Did somebody just say something? Oh my God, that was me. I knew that it wasn’t Woman in Peril story. It was the story of a woman transforming herself and fighting back. That transformation was essential.

The Importance of Inclusion and Female Leadership

Kevin and Susan discuss the value of inclusive storytelling and advocate for more female leadership in Hollywood and beyond: “I think there needs to be more and more female leadership in Hollywood because I think where women lead, often more inclusion follows because we are very collaborative and inclusive by nature.”

Balancing Art and Audience in Filmmaking

Kevin and Susan discuss the delicate balance between honoring artistic vision and meeting audience expectations in film production. On the delicate balance between artistic vision and audience expectations, Susan notes: “we’re not putting a play on in a park that everybody’s volunteering to be in. We’re spending millions of dollars on a business that is a finite business. If a movie doesn’t cost that much, you can take chances. You can make a Dogma film and light it with candles and natural light.”

The Value of Audience Testing and Interpretation

Susan praises Kevin’s ability to interpret audience feedback and find the “note beneath the note” in test screenings. Susan on the audience testing process:

It’s about getting the note beneath the note. That’s always a really important thing to learn as a student, that an audience may tell you something. They may say that they hate a scene, but really without that hated scene, the movie doesn’t work at all, and their hatred is because the character is incredibly scary and unlikeable, and the note beneath the note is it’s fierce and the thing that’s not working might be something else. But the note beneath the note is really important. Kevin, you’ve been very, very helpful in testing. You have a really good radar for hearing what the audience is saying beneath what they’re saying. They’re saying one thing, and yet they mean another. That often happens.

Susan Cartsonis’ passion for women’s voices and her experiences as both a studio executive and producer provide listeners with a unique perspective on the film industry. From her work on blockbusters like Nell and Buffy the Vampire Slayer to more recent projects like Carrie Pilby and Beastly, Susan’s career highlights the power of storytelling and the importance of female representation in film.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes super agents and producers, Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita

In a recent episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sat down with Hollywood power couple Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita to discuss their impressive careers as agents and producers. With decades of experience in the entertainment industry, Wagner and Nicita offer a unique perspective on the world of talent representation, film production, and the changing landscape of Hollywood.

Wagner has worked in the top ranks of the entertainment industry as a talent agent, studio executive, and producer. She co-founded Cruise/Wagner Productions with Tom Cruise, producing blockbuster hits like the “Mission: Impossible” franchise. Nicita worked as a successful talent agent for 5 decades before turning to production and consultation. He is currently Chairman of the American Cinematheque. Together, Wagner and Nicita offer insight into cultivating some of the most successful careers in Hollywood.

Kevin Goetz on Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita:

Let’s stop for a second and say this — taste, taste and taste, which is, you both have it. And I know it only because I’ve worked with you in different iterations. And your sense of material, your sense of what makes story work, your appreciation of research, quite frankly, and the respect for the audience has always been very impressive to me in what I do.

Throughout the interview, both Wagner and Nicita emphasized the importance of looking beyond individual deals to focus on building sustainable careers for their clients. Nicita explained:

“Each decision is supposed to not make you rich. Worry about that later. It’s supposed to expand opportunities so that if you do this, you’ll have more opportunities. And if you do the next one, you have even more opportunities.”

Wagner added her perspective on what made her successful as an agent:

“I became the agent I always wanted to have. And I saw myself as an advocate.”

The Changing Landscape of Hollywood

Both Wagner and Nicita offered their thoughts on the current state of the entertainment industry and its future. Wagner observed:

I think movies aren’t going away and there’ll be a renaissance for film. I just don’t think that movies are at the center of our culture the way they used to be. It used to be that movies defined culture or reflected culture.

Nicita added:

We’re all going to be fine because human beings want stories told with visual representations if possible. Therefore, there will be a consistent appetite. The technology and the culture will stagger along trying to figure out how to get these stories with visual representations to the audience. But the audience is there.

Broadway and Beyond

Wagner has recently turned her attention to Broadway producing. She shared details about upcoming projects, including a stage adaptation of High Noon:

More than thinking we are doing High Noon for Broadway next year. It’s the playwriting debut of an extraordinary screenwriter, Eric Roth. It really was an allegory for the blacklist. And if you transpose that to our time…Eric has written an extraordinary script.

Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita’s careers offer a unique, insider perspective on the genesis of some of Hollywood’s biggest names. Wagner’s journey from actress to top agent, then to successful film producer and now Broadway impresario, demonstrates her versatility and understanding of the creative process. Nicita’s legacy as a powerhouse agent and his transition to production and consulting highlight his expertise in talent management. Together, their experiences at CAA, Cruise/Wagner Productions, and beyond provide for a fascinating look at how stars become stars.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes Oscar-winning director, producer, and actor, Ron Howard.

In this special 50th episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews legendary actor and director Ron Howard. Ron Howard’s extraordinary career spans over six decades, starting as a child actor on The Andy Griffith Show and Happy Days before emerging as one of Hollywood’s most successful and versatile directors. His directorial achievements include critical and commercial successes such as Splash, Cocoon, Parenthood, Apollo 13, A Beautiful Mind (for which he won the Academy Award for Best Director), Rush, Thirteen Lives, and the upcoming Eden. In this intimate conversation, Howard discusses his remarkable journey, his philosophy on maintaining artistic vision while always respecting the audience’s point of view, and his experiences working with some of Hollywood’s biggest names.

Ron Howard on loyalty:

So to me, my loyalty first and foremost is to, what I hope is this intersection between my sensibilities, the project, and an audience. And that’s where your work comes in so significantly. But I don’t believe that I know what’s going to be a hit. I am not a brilliant marketing guy, that is more of a Michael Rosenberg, and Brian’s very gifted in that way as well. But the one thing I have control over is the storytelling and using those materials that I’ve been able to gather through the filming to try to land the plane, you know, to make sure that it reaches the audience. It’s a communication. It’s meant to achieve some connection with the audience. And once I’ve done that to the best of my ability, it works out better with some films than with others. But I can always move the needle toward that connection so that I feel that, well, if an audience member chooses to watch, there’s a really high percentage chance here that they’re going to enjoy it, that they’re going to appreciate it. They’re not going to feel like they wasted their time.

One of the most memorable experiences in Howard’s early directing career was working with the legendary Bette Davis. At just 25 years old, Howard found himself directing Davis in a television movie. He recounts the initial tension, with Davis insisting on calling him “Mr. Howard” until she decided whether she liked him or not.

Howard recounts a memorable experience with Bette Davis:

At a certain point, late in the day, she was having trouble with this one exit, the timing wasn’t right. And I suggested that she leave, I don’t know, either earlier or later, and hesitate before she got to the door and turn around and, and go or something. And she says, oh no, that won’t work. I, that’s, no, that’s not, I, I, no, that’s, that’s a bad idea. And I said, well, would you just try it for me? And she said, well, certainly I’ll try it because you know, I’ve always been the director’s kid. I’ll try anything. So we tried it. We got through the rehearsal, and she did the move, changed the timing, and immediately turned around and said, you’re right. That works better. Okay, let’s shoot it. We shot it. She did it that way. It went well. We finished out the day. When it was over. I said, well, Ms. Davis, you’re wrapped great first day, thanks, I’ll see you tomorrow. And she said, okay, Ron, see you tomorrow. And she patted me on the ass.

Winning the Oscar for A Beautiful Mind

Howard vividly recalls the night he won his Oscar:

This is a kind of wild, Kevin, because there was a number of things that went on. First it was a relief because people sort of expected me to get it, but it had been expected that I would be a candidate for Apollo 13, and I wasn’t nominated.

He also shared an insider story about Mel Gibson presenting the award:

So I went up, I did remember my speech, more or less. I did that. And on the way out, I said to Mel, show me that fricking card. I might not have said frick. And he showed it to me, and thank God it had my name on it. So, oh man, it was a good, it was a good moment.

Balancing Art and Audience

One of Howard’s strengths as a director is his ability to create films that are both artistic and audience-pleasing. He explains his perspective on this balance, emphasizing the importance of understanding and respecting the audience while maintaining artistic integrity. He explains:

Well, it is a dance, and it must be undertaken with real thought and consciousness. Because the audience, of course, they know what they like and they know what they don’t like. They don’t necessarily know why. It begins with art. It begins with a desire to communicate something. Whatever the tone, whether it’s silliness and fun, look, everything carries a theme with it and a set of ideas, or it won’t even register with an audience.

Howard emphasizes the importance of understanding audience feedback:

When you start sharing it with an audience, the challenge is to understand what the questions are and what the answers could be and how they could help you. The question is, what do you think? Look, it’s a little bit like if you tell a joke at a party and you don’t tell it very well, it doesn’t get much of a laugh, but you know there’s something funny there. Maybe the next time you tell it better and it does get a laugh. So the spirit of the joke, the idea of the joke remains the same, but the delivery improved. So this is really about understanding how the ideas are being delivered and what it’s adding up to. And when you get the answers back, it’s sometimes it’s pretty heartbreaking to you as a creative person. But if you understand the information, the feedback that you’re getting, you then get to make a value judgment. You get to make a decision.

Ron Howard’s career is a testament to his enduring talent, adaptability, and passion for storytelling. From his early days as Opie on The Andy Griffith Show to winning an Oscar for A Beautiful Mind, Howard has consistently delivered compelling narratives across a wide variety of genres. His ability to balance artistic vision with audience expectations has resulted in an acclaimed body of work that resonates with both critics and viewers. Ron Howard remains a well-loved and innovative figure in Hollywood, always seeking to push the boundaries of filmmaking while maintaining a deep respect for the audience.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, a