audience research Archives - Kevin Goetz

Key Takeaways from Don’t Kill the Messenger Podcast with Kevin Goetz

Managing Editor - AB — Thu, 17 Jul 2025 01:55:20 +0000

The Art of the Focus Group: Screen Engine’s Top Moderators Reveal the Secrets Behind Hollywood’s Most Critical Conversations

For decades, Kevin Goetz has shaped Hollywood through the art of audience testing and focus group moderation. In a revealing special podcast conversation, Kevin interviews three of the top focus group moderators from his company, Screen Engine. Terri Cavanaugh, Ari Virgil-Paige, and Aaron Feuer pull back the curtain on the sophisticated craft that transforms audience feedback into actionable insights for filmmakers.

Their expertise in audience research has influenced countless blockbusters, and their approaches to focus group moderation offer valuable lessons for anyone seeking to understand the intersection of data and storytelling in modern Hollywood.

The Irreplaceable Value of Live Audience Testing

While quantitative data provides important metrics, Screen Engine’s moderators stress that focus groups offer something irreplaceable: nuanced human insight. As Ari Virgil-Paige explains, “There’s no substitute for hearing it directly from your audience. It adds a layer of nuance that I think you can only get from interacting with folks.”

This principle drives Screen Engine’s approach to audience testing. The subtle cues—a delayed hand raise, hesitant body language, or the passion behind a response—provide context that surveys alone don’t capture. For filmmakers, these insights often reveal the difference between a movie that works and one that truly connects.

“There’s something about getting to hear how people describe things or how they’re saying it that takes it beyond just what they write. For instance, we’ll say how many like the end overall. And a hands either go up right away, which means great, or they go, eh. So where they might say they liked it overall on the survey, when you see that hand go up halfway, you know, intuitively there’s a hold back.”

— Terri Cavanaugh, VP of Qualitative Insights, Screen Engine

This distinction between written feedback and spoken response lies at the heart of effective focus group moderation.

The Magic of the Opening Question

Aaron Feuer reveals one of Screen Engine’s most powerful techniques: the strategic importance of the first question. “Can you give me a word or phrase to describe what you just saw?” This simple opening becomes the catalyst for everything that follows.

“What I think is so magical about a group is that first question. Can you give me a word or phrase to describe what you just saw? Because what the audience gives you in that top of mind thought, it’s what the catalyst to the whole conversation is going to be. And you can uncover things right there from those first few moments with a focus group. And I’ve always found that fascinating because by the time you get to the end of it, it circles back to what was said right at the start.”

— Aaron Feuer, VP of the Movie Group, Screen Engine

The top-of-mind responses from audience testing participants often predict the direction of the entire conversation. For Kevin Goetz and his Screen Engine team, this opening moment represents years of refinement in audience research strategy. The question’s simplicity masks its sophistication; it avoids the polished responses people think they should give and taps into their gut reactions.

Essential Qualities of Elite Focus Group Moderators

The Screen Engine moderators identify several non-negotiable qualities for effective audience testing facilitation:

Curiosity Above All: Ari Virgil-Paige describes herself as “naturally a curious person” who approaches each focus group like a detective story. This investigative mindset drives deeper into audience motivations and reactions.

Intuition You Can’t Teach: Terri Cavanaugh shares that “intuition…you’re born with it.” While techniques can be learned, the ability to read a room and sense unspoken dynamics separates good moderators from great ones.

Multitasking Mastery: Effective focus group moderation requires simultaneous awareness of multiple dynamics, including the participants, the filmmakers observing, body language, verbal responses, and time management. This complex orchestration demands logistical management.

Authentic Connection: Aaron Feuer’s background working with family audiences reveals the importance of meeting people where they are. Whether it’s a shy child or a passionate horror fan, great moderators adapt their approach while maintaining their authentic voice.

The Strategic Psychology of Question Design

Beyond the opening, Screen Engine’s moderators reveal sophisticated thinking about question strategy in audience testing. When asked about their most important single question, each moderator offers distinct but complementary approaches:

The Enhancement Question: Terri Cavanaugh focuses on improvement: “If you could add or take away anything to this movie that would bring your engagement even deeper or cause you to love this film any more, what would that one thing be?”

The Diagnostic Question: Aaron Feuer identifies barriers: “What’s truly holding you back from enjoying it that much more?”

The Contextual Question: Ari Virgil-Paige highlights that the most important question varies by project and objectives, demonstrating the strategic flexibility required in professional audience research.

This variety reveals how Screen Engine’s approach to focus group moderation adapts to serve different films and different phases of the testing process.

Handling Resistance and Building Trust

One of the most practical aspects of focus group moderation involves managing difficult dynamics. Screen Engine’s moderators have developed specific techniques for common challenges:

Dealing with Disruptive Participants: Terri Cavanaugh learned to use body language and clear redirection: “You walk to the other side, you make it very clear with your body language that this conversation is not going to continue.”

Building Rapid Trust: Kevin Goetz’s approach incorporates speaking authentically, and sometimes swearing to signal that participants can speak freely without fear of judgment.

Managing Monopolizers: Ari Virgil-Paige ties redirection to time constraints and group equity, maintaining authority while staying respectful.

These techniques reflect years of refinement in audience testing methodology, showing how skilled moderators maintain productive group dynamics while extracting genuine insights.

The Filmmaker Perspective: Why Great Directors Embrace Audience Testing

Screen Engine’s moderators work regularly with A-list filmmakers who understand the value of audience research. Directors like Peter Farrelly, Paul Feig, and the Russo Brothers actively seek out focus group feedback because they recognize it as a valuable tool for perfecting their vision.

Aaron Feuer describes Peter Farrelly’s response to a focus group session: “That helped me so much, Aaron… I was thinking this, but I didn’t even think about that.” When filmmakers returned with re-edits based on audience feedback, test scores jumped significantly.

This collaborative approach demonstrates how audience testing serves the creative process rather than constraining it. As Ari Virgil-Paige notes, “Great filmmakers understand it’s a tool. It’s another tool in the kit.”

Addressing the Naysayers: Research as Creative Support

Perhaps the most compelling defense of the audience testing process comes from Ari Virgil-Paige, who addresses filmmaker resistance head-on:

“Don’t ask a question you’re not ready for the answer to. If you’re actually here to get the truth, you have to be ready for what the truth is. And I think naysayers… research is a tool, right? I can use a hammer to build, or I can use a hammer to break. And part of it is what is your perspective coming in? Do you see research as a productive process, or are you coming in seeing it as something that’s meant to destroy or meant to derail? We’re not here to stand in the way of the creative process. We’re here to support it…do you want to hear about it in the focus group when you have time to fix it? Or do you want to hear about it on TikTok when they’re using it to tear it apart and drag down your Rotten Tomatoes score? The comment will still exist. The feeling will still exist… Just because you refuse to hear the answer or don’t want to ask the question, doesn’t mean the answer doesn’t exist. Just means you’re gonna get it too late to do anything about it.”

— Ari Virgil-Paige, Executive VP of the Movie Group, Screen Engine

The Art of Finding the Nugget

Perhaps the most valuable skill in focus group moderation is identifying the single insight that unlocks a film’s potential. Kevin Goetz shares an example where one participant suggested that characters who found treasure should “keep a little for themselves,” a small change that would have significantly improved audience satisfaction.

These breakthrough moments in audience testing often come from unexpected sources and require skilled moderators to recognize their significance. As Screen Engine’s team shares, the goal isn’t to implement every suggestion but to understand the underlying audience needs that suggestions reveal.

Beyond the Focus Group: The Broader Impact of Audience Research

The influence of Screen Engine’s audience testing extends far beyond individual films. Their work has shaped understanding of how audiences connect with characters, what pacing works across different genres, and how emotional beats land with different demographics.

Ari Virgil-Paige captures the broader mission: “We’re empathetic to the audience who wants to like the movie. We’re empathetic to the filmmaker who wants to connect with the audience. And to the studio that’s trying to run a business.”

This multi-stakeholder perspective reflects the sophisticated balance required in professional audience research, serving artistic vision while acknowledging commercial realities.

The Future of Focus Group Moderation

As Kevin Goetz prepares the next generation of Screen Engine moderators, he emphasizes that the fundamental principles remain constant even as technology evolves. Whether conducted in person or online, effective audience testing still requires the human insight that only skilled moderators can provide.

The Screen Engine approach represents decades of refinement in audience research methodology. Their success demonstrates that in an industry driven by data, the art of human connection and skilled interpretation remains irreplaceable.

For aspiring moderators and industry professionals, the Screen Engine team’s insights provide valuable lessons in striking a balance between analytical rigor and interpersonal skill. Their work demonstrates that effective audience testing serves both the art and business of filmmaking.

Key Principles for Effective Audience Testing

The Screen Engine moderators’ conversation reveals several actionable principles:

Trust your instincts while remaining open to what audiences tell you
Focus on what’s not being said as much as what is
Create safe spaces for honest feedback through authentic connection
Listen for themes rather than implementing every individual suggestion
Maintain curiosity about why audiences respond the way they do
Balance multiple perspectives between artistic vision and audience needs

The full conversation between Kevin Goetz and his Screen Engine moderators on Don’t Kill the Messenger provides even deeper insights into the sophisticated craft of focus group moderation and audience research. For anyone involved in content creation or audience analysis, it offers an essential understanding of how skilled practitioners turn audience feedback into actionable insights.

Listen to the complete interview on Don’t Kill the Messenger with Kevin Goetz, available on your favorite podcast platform. Learn more about Screen Engine’s audience testing and research services at ScreenEngineASI.com.

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes manager, producer, and former studio head, Mike Marcus

Managing Editor - AB — Thu, 08 May 2025 18:31:40 +0000

Mike Marcus on Building Hollywood Networks and Creating Hit Films

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with industry veteran Mike Marcus, whose impressive 57-year career has taken him from an agency mailroom to MGM Pictures president to founding Echo Lake Entertainment’s management division. Throughout the conversation, Marcus shares insights into Hollywood networking, packaging films, and the evolving entertainment landscape.

The Agency Mailroom: Hollywood’s Ultimate Training Ground

When discussing his entry into the business, Marcus emphasizes the incomparable education provided by starting in an agency mailroom:

“The mail room and the agency give you a background in what the inner workings of business are like because all of the teaching, all of the classes that you take, nothing prepares you as much as on-the-job training,” Marcus explains. “Networking is the most important thing that comes out of working at a big agency, working in a mail room. And whether it’s a big agency, a big management company, or even a big production company.”

This networking philosophy has served as the foundation of Marcus’s decades-long career. “I can still pick up the phone and call Chris and Paul [Weitz] and they always pick up the phone for me,” he notes. “It’s building relationships. It’s a people business.”

The Art of Packaging Films

Marcus’s superpower – which he modestly describes as “I’m good at schmoozing and putting people together” – led to his reputation as one of Hollywood’s premier “packagers,” assembling creative teams for projects including The Fisher King, Trading Places, and American Werewolf in London. His ability to see connections others missed is perfectly illustrated in his story about The Fisher King:

“It’s remembering relationships. It’s like when I put together Fisher King. Medavoy was doing Fisher King, and I read the script and I loved it. And I thought it would be great for Robin. And I gave it to him and I got him to read… He says, ‘Well, I’m not gonna commit to it.’ I said, ‘Well, why not?’ He said, ‘Well, there’s no director.’ So Lynda Obst and Debra Hill and Menschel, and I had a meeting about finding a director, and the thought popped into my mind, okay, he just did a film with Terry Gilliam. Why not see if Terry would do it with him? So we went to Terry Gilliam, he read it, he loved it. I called Robin and I said, ‘Robin, Terry Gilliam wants to do Fisher King.’ Robin said, ‘Okay, I’ll do it.’ Simple as that.”

From Agent to Studio Executive: The MGM Years

One of the most fascinating segments explores Marcus’s unexpected transition from super-agent to MGM Pictures president in 1993. The call from Michael Ovitz that changed his career trajectory came out of the blue:

“Why would Mike wanna talk to me sitting down in his seating area and not just have a quick verbal conversation? But we sit down and he said, ‘Okay, listen, I’ve been talking to Frank Mancuso and Frank wants to talk to you about being the head of MGM.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, Mike, sure. What do you wanna talk to me about?’ And he said, ‘No, I’m serious.’ And I said, ‘Come on, Mike.’ And eventually he convinced me that Frank wanted to talk to me about it.”

What made Marcus the right choice for the role? “Two things. Number one, I was very good at building relationships with heads of studios, whether they were head of distribution, head of production, or chairman. And I had courted Mancuso and I had gotten to know him and he had told me in one of my meetings, he says, ‘You know, I don’t like agents much, but you’re okay.’ So number two, I was a packager. I put together a lot of movies over the years… It was known that I was a packager.”

The Value of Research and Testing

Marcus’s views on audience research reflect his pragmatic approach to filmmaking. While he started as a “fly-by-night guy” who did everything by “stomach” feeling, over time he came to appreciate the value of research:

“Well, okay, so let’s say you wanna buy a script. To get the script concept judged by research isn’t a bad way to go. There’s a lot of reasons why research is helpful in making a movie and in distributing movie and getting the focus groups that you lead or have led over the years have been, I think, instrumental in helping the filmmakers understand things.”

This perspective was shaped by experiences like Stargate, which initially tested terribly but was saved through research-informed changes.

Theatrical Exhibition and the Streaming Revolution

On the future of theatrical exhibition in the streaming era, Marcus offers a balanced perspective:

“I’ve always felt that movies will always exist in theaters because at some point, mothers and fathers will wanna get outta the house away from the kids. At some point, the kids are gonna wanna get outta the house away from the parents. And movies are a logical place for them to go.”

Building Echo Lake and Staying Relevant

How has Marcus remained relevant throughout his 57-year career? His passion for the business shines through:

“Listen, I’ve never once doubted the choice to get into the business. I’ve had a blast. I’ve had success. I can’t complain. It is a lot of fun. And I’ve had fun building companies. On December 1st, it’ll be 20 years since I started Echo Lake Management, the management division of Echo Lake Entertainment.”

Industry Trends and Concerns

Looking to the future, Marcus sees a potential resurgence in independent film:

“There seems to be the potential based on some feedback I’ve gotten from some of my folks that went to the Berlin Film Festival, that television is not as interesting as features are. So I believe there’s gonna be a resurgence in the independent film business. So that’s exciting. I like the idea that film can get energized again.”

On AI, he expresses skepticism about its creative potential: “The truth is you could make a movie without an actor, without a writer, and without a director. Somebody could just come in and set it up with AI. But would people like it? I don’t know. I’ve read some AI scripts and AI coverage, and there’s no heart, there’s no soul to these things.”

The Value of Experience

Perhaps the most resonant wisdom Marcus shares comes from his reflections on experience and career development:

“Experience is everything. I rarely run into a problem that I haven’t seen before.”

“It takes a good 10 years to really know what you’re doing, in my opinion. And then once you do, you just incrementally build from there.”

Throughout the conversation, Mike Marcus demonstrates the relationship-building skills, strategic thinking, and passion for filmmaking that have made him a Hollywood powerhouse for nearly six decades. His journey from agency mailroom to industry leader offers insights for anyone interested in the entertainment business, regardless of where they are in their career trajectory.

Don’t miss the full conversation on Don’t Kill the Messenger to hear more about Mike Marcus’s Hollywood journey and insights into the legendary films he helped bring to life.

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

For more information about Mike Marcus:

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0546152/
Echo Lake Entertainment: https://www.echolakeentertainment.com/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360
Linked In @Kevin Goetz
Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

For deeper insights into what makes a movie resonate and succeed, don’t miss the upcoming book How to Score in Hollywood (September 2025) by entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz with Bob Levin. This book unveils the secrets behind success and profitability in the movie business, showcasing how smart, data-driven decisions—from development through release—can help filmmakers minimize risks and maximize returns.

Kevin, the founder and CEO of Screen Engine/ASI, is also the bestselling author of Audience-ology, host of the popular Don’t Kill the Messenger podcast, and a speaker who educates the filmmaking community through keynotes and global presentations. In 2024, he was honored with the prestigious American Cinematheque Power of Cinema Award for his transformative contributions to the film industry.

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Finding Your “And”: Kevin Goetz’s Journey from Actor to Audience Whisperer

Managing Editor - AB — Sat, 26 Apr 2025 04:09:51 +0000

In Hollywood, many unknown people working behind the scenes have a big impact on the final cuts of films. Kevin Goetz is one of them. The Los Angeles Times called him the ‘doctor of audience-ology’ because of his work testing movies with audiences before they’re released.

As the founder and CEO of Screen Engine/ASI, Goetz has tested more than 5,000 films with every major studio and streaming service. But what makes his story worth telling isn’t just his impressive career; it’s how he got there by discovering what he refers to as embracing his “and.”

From Movie Testing to Global Research

Screen Engine/ASI started with a focus on movie testing but has grown into much more. Today, it’s a global market research firm with over 300 employees serving clients across multiple industries.

“My firm tests. We diagnose. We prescribe a remedy,” Goetz writes in his book Audience•ology. “Occasionally, we must break the news that the patient is dead on arrival.”

While movie testing remains at Goetz’s core, Screen Engine/ASI now applies its research expertise to gaming, technology, consumer goods, healthcare, lifestyle, travel, and sports.

At the foundation is Goetz’s approach: understanding how entertainment consumers respond to content and brands. In Hollywood, this has earned him nicknames like “the movie whisperer”, but he prefers audience advocate, reflecting his mission to help creators connect with the people they’re trying to reach.

The Brooklyn Boy Makes Good: Kevin’s Early Years

Kevin Goetz was born in Brooklyn in the 60’s. From his earliest years, he was drawn to performance, practicing Oscar acceptance speeches in his bathroom mirror and begging his parents for singing, dancing, and music lessons.

“I had known that I belonged in show business from my first moment of consciousness,” he recalls.

At fifteen, Goetz ran away from his New Jersey home, if only for a day, to pursue acting. Using the money he earned from odd jobs, he took a bus to New York City, found a photographer to take his headshots, and found a dance studio to take classes. He also ultimately found a talent manager. This bold move convinced his reluctant parents that his interest in performing wasn’t just a phase.

By his late teens, Goetz was booking TV and radio commercials while studying at Rutgers University’s Mason Gross School of the Arts, one of the most respected acting conservatories in the country. But his entrepreneurial spirit was already emerging. During high school, he founded his own dance studio, which helped support his college education. Once he graduated and moved to New York City, he tried to buy the video store where he worked on weekends while pursuing his acting career.

“I decided that if I was going to work at a video store, I was going to be the greatest goddamn video store employee the world had ever seen,” he recounts. Though the owner, feeling threatened, fired him for being too ambitious, this early experience taught him valuable business lessons.

Discovering the Power of the “And”

The pivotal moment in Goetz’s story came during his transition from actor to researcher. After moving to Los Angeles to pursue acting, he took a part-time job with National Research Group (NRG), moderating focus groups at film test screenings. What began as a “survival job” gradually revealed itself as something more.

For years, Goetz maintained a dual identity: actor, singer, dancer, and ultimately producer on the one hand; focus group moderator of pre-released movies on the other. This division created tension, as if one path represented his dream and the other was merely a practical necessity.

The breakthrough came when he realized these weren’t competing identities but complementary parts of a whole. In his 2016 Rutgers alma mater commencement address, Goetz shared this epiphany:

“If I’m being totally honest, if someone told 21-year-old Kevin that this is what 53-year-old Kevin would be doing, I’d probably be disappointed, maybe even devastated, because it doesn’t jive with the specific vision I had for my life. It’s easy to get stuck, especially for artists. I implore you to keep an open mind and heart. I’m an artist AND an entrepreneur. That’s what I was always meant to be.”

This realization of finding his “and” became a defining principle. He elaborated during his keynote at the Insights Association conference in 2023:

“Every day I show up with my decades of experience as a researcher, strategist AND a creative, I show up with my ‘and.’ The ‘and’ is what connects our work with who we are.”

This integration doubled his effectiveness. His actor’s training gave him the emotional intelligence to read unspoken reactions in focus groups. His experience as a producer helped him speak the language of filmmaking and translate audience feedback into actionable suggestions. And his researcher mindset allowed him to analyze the feedback from individual respondents and patterns across thousands of screenings.

The Hollywood Tapestry

In 2024, during his acceptance speech for receiving the American Cinematheque’s Power of Cinema award, Goetz used a powerful metaphor: “What I can see clearly now is just how vast and rich the Hollywood tapestry is. How it somehow manages to fit so many of the twists and turns of my life and career.”

This image captures something essential about both Goetz’s story and his philosophy. Film is a collaborative medium, combining countless contributors, from directors, actors, and producers to editors, marketers, and audiences themselves.

As an “audience advocate,” Goetz plays a vital role in this tapestry. His work has led to innovative approaches to audience research. For one big action film in particular, he developed a strategy where he paused the movie midway and asked the audience: “What do you think will happen next? And what do you want to happen next?”

The approach of trusting the audience to help craft the ending led to reshoots that transformed the film into a multi-million dollar worldwide success.

Lessons from Kevin’s Journey

Goetz’s story offers valuable lessons beyond the film industry. His three principles provide a framework for anyone navigating their career:

“Own the video store” – Bring your full passion to everything you do and get the proper homework done to take it to the next level.
“If you can’t find a way, make a way” – Don’t wait for permission; create opportunities when they don’t exist.
“Find your ‘and'” – Recognize that seemingly disparate skills can become your unique strength.

This third principle has proven most powerful. As Goetz noted:

“When you bring your all—all of your experience, all of your love, all of yourself to the process—that’s when you start seeing a more full, interesting, and authentic story around what you are trying to accomplish. That’s when you get to the essence of what’s true… In those moments, you make magic.”

In a world that pushes us to specialize, Kevin Goetz reminds us of the power of embracing our multifaceted selves. His career demonstrates that our greatest strengths often lie at the intersection of seemingly unrelated passions and skills.

In finding his “and,” Kevin Goetz didn’t just build a successful business; he found a way to use human connection to help filmmakers and audiences speak to each other through the wonder of movies.

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes audience research pioneer, Catherine Paura

Managing Editor - AB — Thu, 02 Jan 2025 16:59:03 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes audience research pioneer, Catherine Paura

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with his good friend, mentor, and colleagues, Catherine Paura, a pioneering force in entertainment research who co-founded National Research Group (NRG) in 1977. As an accomplished entrepreneur, Paura helped establish the foundation for modern movie research and marketing. From her humble beginnings to becoming one of Hollywood’s most influential research experts, Paura shares insights from her career. The episode is particularly special as it features a conversation between two longtime friends – Paura and Goetz have maintained a close personal and professional relationship spanning nearly 40 years. Their discussion reveals not just the evolution of an industry, but the deep personal connections that have defined their professional lives.

Kevin Goetz on Catherine Paura:

I just want to say thank you for teaching me so much. Thank you for enlightening and bringing so much to the industry that you love because you made a tremendous impact on the movie business and on my particular area, which is research and strategy.

Apocalypse Now and Early Movie Research

When Paura and her partner Joe Farrell founded NRG, Hollywood was still operating on a “distribution model.” The shift to a marketing-centric approach began with early projects like Apocalypse Now, where Paura conducted groundbreaking research:

In the case of Apocalypse Now, there were three round the clock screenings in Westwood, I think they were at the Bruin. And people just lined up and waited in line for hours. And we handed out questionnaires and Francis was trying to determine what to do about the ending. So, if memory serves, there were three different endings that we showed, so once one screening stopped, we let the other people in and the last reel would go on.

Evolution of Movie Marketing

Paura’s insights about messaging and tracking studies transformed how Hollywood understood its audiences. She explains the parallel between political polling and movie marketing:

Keep in mind that Joe and I worked at Harris, and Harris was a political pollster. And the similarities between political polling and polling for movies are apparent when you think about it from this point of view. If your candidate doesn’t win on a Tuesday, you can’t go back and rethink your campaign. If your movie doesn’t open on a Friday, you can’t go back and rethink your campaign. So everything leads to that opening weekend or that election.

The Power of Messaging

Paura emphasizes the continued importance of messaging in modern marketing: “Messaging, messaging, messaging… It’s not about throwing something against the wall and it will stick. It’s about really being very specific in a message that will work to persuade, persuade, persuade.”

The Future of the Movie Industry

Drawing from her decades of experience, Paura offers a clear assessment of cinema’s future:

I think there will continue to be a shrinking of the theatrical audience. It’s not going to be a disappearance, but I think it will be a shrinking of the theatrical audience… As the boomers get older, and they’re almost the last generation that are completely habituated to go into the movies because we didn’t have many other choices… Now, when I think about the opportunity that people have to watch entertainment, if you can save a lot of money and stay home and not pay a babysitter and not pay for parking and not go out to eat… habits have changed. And I think Covid ushered in even more rapidly the change in habits.

Life Lessons and Personal Growth

One of the most touching moments in the conversation comes when Paura shares advice she received from her friend Marti Morans, who was battling brain cancer:

I went out to lunch with her in July. She died in August… She said to me, and I have chills telling you this, she said, ‘Catherine, when you’re dying, you’ll never wish that you had worked one more day.’ And I have never gotten a greater gift than that. And I started to take vacations. It was… I was 40 years old and I started to take vacations.

The Art of Coaching

Today, Paura runs Sistina Coaching, explaining the meaningful connection to her heritage:

The reason why I did that, because I wanted to harken back to my Italian heritage and Sistina to me is, you know, it’s art and art. We’re all art, we all create our own lives. We all paint our own pictures, so to speak. We are all creative in our own way. Doesn’t have to be where, you know, Leonardo da Vincis, but we are all creative. We create our own lives.

Catherine Paura and Kevin Goetz’s 40-year friendship weaves throughout the episode, from their first meeting where Paura was counting questionnaires on theater steps to sharing pivotal life moments, including the loss of loved ones. Their evolving relationship demonstrates how professional relationships in Hollywood can transcend business. Their candid conversation reveals not just the evolution of movie research, but the importance of mentorship, mutual respect, and showing up for each other when it matters most.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about Catherine Paura:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-paura-2098a63b

Sistina Coaching: https://sistinacoaching.com/

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0667474/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

The post Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes audience research pioneer, Catherine Paura appeared first on Kevin Goetz.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG.

Managing Editor - AB — Mon, 10 Jun 2024 14:36:08 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG.

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” Kevin Goetz sits down with director and producer, Joseph McGinty Nichol, better known as McG. They discuss McG’s journey in the entertainment industry.

McG exploded on the scene with his directorial debut, Charlie’s Angels, which had, at the time, the highest-grossing opening weekend for a directorial debut. Through his production company, Wonderland Sound and Vision, McG has overseen the production of films and television shows such as Terminator Salvation, This Means War, We Are Marshall, and Family Switch along with The OC, and Turner and Hooch for television. In this personal conversation, McG also touches on his struggles with agoraphobia, and the importance of audience feedback in the filmmaking process.

Kevin Goetz on McG:

“You have extraordinary EQ. You are blessed with it. It is definitely a superpower of yours. And I am so glad that you opened up to me today and shared your stories and people are going to really respond to this. You are a very special man in my life, and I so respect you and your talent.”

First-Time Director with a Huge Budget

McG shares his experience directing his first full-length feature film, Charlie’s Angels, and how Drew Barrymore’s support was crucial in securing the job. However, the studio had doubts about his direction, as McG reveals:

I acted out the whole movie in real-time. I did all three parts. I stood up on the table and did it. Amy and Lucy were looking at me like I was outta my mind. Arms crossed, terrible nonverbals, shaking their head like, this guy’s dead to us. Drew’s there cheering me on. And then begrudgingly at the end, it was a real moment of Drew’s like he’s doing it or I’m not. And begrudgingly they hired me. And then the rest is Hollywood history as they say. And it worked out. And I was nearly fired off that movie six, eight times.

Living with Agoraphobia and Panic Attacks

McG opens up about his struggles with agoraphobia and how it affected his career, including being fired from Superman Returns. He shares:

I couldn’t get on the plane. That night I got fired. Tough, tough call. Ari Emanuel comes over to my house to share the news but also to stand by my side to Ari’s credit, it was a real standup moment that I’ll always owe him for. Got a letter the next day from the head of legal at Warner’s. These people are all my dear friends saying, we reserve the right to sue you for the damages you’ve caused to the film by not telling us about your problem. And that ultimately got me to limp in to see these two women at UCLA, one a psychiatrist, one a behavioral therapist that helped me start to put one foot in front of the other and start to try to overcome this disorder.

Music Videos and Style in Filmmaking

Kevin and McG discuss how music videos have influenced filmmakers like McG, Spike Jonze, and David Fincher, helping them develop unique styles and voices in the industry. McG explains, “It’s so insightful that you bring that up because what a class that was in the nineties and the way it would work was a record label would send out a song, the new Closer by Nine Inch Nails. And Fincher would write on it, Spike would write on it, I would write on it. F. Gary Gray would write on it. Hype Williams, Ratner, all these people that were part of this group, Francis Lawrence. And you can imagine how different the takes would be and how the final expression of what that is for the artist was it was all over the place. What you get from Michael Bay versus what you get from Spike Jonze, Michel Gondry. I mean those are really different expressions.”

The Secret to Success: Audience Testing

McG reveals one of his secrets to success: working with Kevin Goetz and his audience testing process, which has helped him improve his films and connect with viewers.

McG on listening to the audience:

If you know how to incorporate that invaluable feedback, you can improve your film to such a degree that it’s to everyone’s benefit, most of which the audience.

Incorporating Audience Feedback on We Are Marshall

McG recalls a specific audience feedback moment that led to a significant change in “We Are Marshall,” highlighting the importance of listening to, learning from, and respecting the audience. He shares, “We are Marshal. I completely changed the manner in which the plane crashed because of you. The inciting incident of the whole film’s a tragic film. Football teams flying home from a game, the plane crashes, they lose the whole football team. The town builds itself back up from the ashes. And you and I are working on that movie and I overdid it. The plane crash was too violent. It was taking people out of it. And the way I ultimately expressed that was probably five or six frames. And we talk about there’s 24 frames in a second movie. So it’s very, very brief. This five or six, just the beginnings of it. And I got it out and you gave me that tip and it revolutionized the movie. And the movie scored far better because of it.”

Mentors and Influences

McG discusses his primary filmmaking influences, including Alfred Hitchcock and Quentin Tarantino. He also mentions a high school psychology teacher who played a significant role in his personal growth and career path.

McG on Alfred Hitchcock:

And then speaking of camera, I mean, you look at Rope, which they had to hide some cuts ’cause the film would run out, but meant to be a single shot. And I would just marvel at that whole thing. And to this day, I still try to build in one big oner in every movie I do.

The interview highlights the unique bond between the filmmaker and the audience researcher, showcasing how their collaboration can elevate a film’s success. The pair close by discussing McG’s upcoming projects, Way of the Warrior Kid and Uglies with Joey King. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about McG:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McG

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mcgfilm/

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0629334/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

The post Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG. appeared first on Kevin Goetz.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes veteran producer and studio head, Bill Block.

Managing Editor - AB — Wed, 01 May 2024 14:19:30 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes veteran producer and studio head, Bill Block.

In the latest episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz engages in an insightful conversation with Bill Block, a renowned agent, executive producer, and former studio head.

Block’s journey in entertainment began as a secretary at the Irv Schechter agency, but his talent and drive quickly propelled him to become a successful agent. His keen eye for opportunity led him to acquire Live Entertainment, later transformed into Artisan Entertainment, where he played a pivotal role in the groundbreaking success of The Blair Witch Project. As a producer, Block has been involved in bringing numerous acclaimed films to life, including District 9, Bad Moms, and Fury. His tenure as CEO of Miramax from 2017 to 2023 saw the studio’s resurgence, with Block overseeing the production and distribution of critically acclaimed films such as Guy Ritchie’s The Gentlemen and Oscar-nominated The Holdovers.

Kevin Goetz on Bill Block:

“Bill Block has been a tremendous advocate of the audience. He has listened to them, he honors them. And he truly will not do a project or won’t defer to a filmmaker if the audience at large is saying something to the contrary. And I say this to so many of you out there regularly, which is, avoid the audience at your own peril.”

Bill Block’s background and early career

The acquisition of Live Entertainment and the success of The Blair Witch Project

Bill Block shares the fascinating story behind the success of The Blair Witch Project, a film that defied traditional marketing strategies and became a cultural phenomenon.

“We went outside and then one other buyer walked out. It was a lengthy start. Two others were passing in the lobby, and we looked at each other and Phil Raskind, who was the agent, was walking out, head down a little bit on the street, no auction. And we went up to him and said, we like this one. We want to make a deal. We want to make a deal now.”

**Using audience research to make decisions on the Halloween franchise reboot**

Kevin Goetz and Bill Block discuss the pivotal role of audience research in the decision-making process for the Halloween franchise reboot. They emphasize the importance of Jamie Lee Curtis’s involvement in the project, as revealed by the research data.

Kevin Goetz on the Halloween reboot:

“I ran it with and without Jamie Lee Curtis. And I think it was David Gordon Green as director. There were other elements that were already attached to it. I absolutely said this movie should be made. On a Sunday morning, the phone rings and it’s Jason Blum and Charles and maybe Cooper. And they said, hold on, we want to get Bill Block on the line as well. And we got Bill Block on the line. So now we’ve got a three-way conversation going. And we need to make a decision on Jamie Lee right now. I think she wanted several million dollars. And I said, pay the lady.”

Navigating the complexities of film financing

Goetz and Block delve into the intricacies of putting together financial packages for film projects. Block shares his experience with both challenging and straightforward deals. When asked about the toughest financial package he’s ever put together, Block points to Oliver Stone’s W., a controversial film that came out during an election year.

Block on Oliver Stone’s W.:

It was coming up in the election year. Oliver had a balanced view of George W. I mean, he’d gone to school with him. He knew him. So that, but that was a stretch ’cause he’s a brilliant filmmaker. By the way, I call him Roger Clemens. I’ve never seen anybody operate quite like him. He threw a no-hitter. He started the picture in April and delivered it before the election and just was flawless in terms of his shooting and post.

Bill’s insights on packaging and financing independent films

Block discusses the importance of attaching talent, securing presales, and finding the right equity partners to fill the financing gap. Block touches on films he has been involved with like Bad Moms, Fury, and Guy Ritchie’s The Gentleman.

The potential impact of AI on the entertainment industry

In this forward-thinking segment, Bill Block shares his insights on the rapidly advancing world of artificial intelligence and its potential to revolutionize the entertainment industry. He predicts that within the next 2-3 years, AI will significantly reduce production costs and timelines by generating high-quality scripts, visual effects, and even actor performances.

“A complete reduction in costs. So the image generating capability, a text-to-image generation now is going to take an action picture, and this is going to be interesting for stars. I’ve talked to Jason [Statham] about it a little bit. You’re taking a $70 million Jason Statham picture that I project could do for maybe seven to 10, you know, within that time span. Because all the stunts and all the action should be, you’re going to see it in here by Metaphysic this fall, generated, the image generation, at that cost where the star will only have to work for a week. The movie will get done in two weeks.”

Bill Block’s extensive experience, combining financial expertise with respect for the audience, makes him an invaluable voice in the entertainment industry. His insights into the evolving landscape of film financing, distribution, and the integration of artificial intelligence demonstrate his ability to navigate the complexities of the business. His stories and observations, shared in this engaging conversation with Kevin, offer a fascinating glimpse into the future of filmmaking.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about Bill Block:

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1088848/
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Block

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-block-ba3525104

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

The post Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes veteran producer and studio head, Bill Block. appeared first on Kevin Goetz.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes legendary producer, Hawk Koch.

Managing Editor - AB — Tue, 23 Jan 2024 19:15:16 +0000

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” host Kevin Goetz has a lively and enlightening conversation with legendary Hollywood producer Hawk Koch. With over 50 years in the movie business, Koch has countless stories to share from his prolific career working on classic films like Chinatown, Marathon Man, Heaven Can Wait, and Wayne’s World. He offers a rare insider’s perspective on working with icons like Clark Gable, Ingrid Bergman, Jimmy Stewart, and Barbra Streisand. Koch has worked on countless classic films and with many iconic talents. He gave host Kevin Goetz a rare insider’s perspective, sharing entertaining stories and hard-earned wisdom. Here are some highlights from their conversation:

What’s in a Name?

Koch talks about changing his name at age 50 when he was bar mitzvahed, taking on the nickname “Hawk” to establish his own identity apart from his famous father, producer Howard W. Koch.

“I just realized for 49 years I’ve had my father’s name. I want my own name. And then he said to me, the words that changed my life, this amazing rabbi said to me, you can have your own name.”

Riding Horses with Clark Gable

Koch reminisces fondly about getting his first horseback ride as a 4-year-old from Clark Gable on a movie set. He describes feeling Gable’s warmth and humanity even in that brief 30-second interaction, as the iconic actor picked him up and put Koch in front of him on the saddle.

Working with Legends

Koch shares his experience early in his career working with and being in the presence of classic actors like Jimmy Stewart on the set of Fool’s Parade. He was awe-struck, barely able to speak in Stewart’s presence and realizing he was working with a legend. Koch also describes a similar feeling when seeing Ingrid Bergman for the first time during wardrobe tests for Cactus Flower.

Icon Lightning Round

When asked for rapid impressions, Koch gives funny and candid takes on industry figures he’s worked with like calling Roman Polanski the best technical director he’s worked with, Warren Beatty a procrastinator and perfectionist, and noting Faye Dunaway was the toughest actress he ever had to work with.

Getting His Start in the Music Business

Hawk discusses his start working in music thanks to a chance dinner meeting. This led to him touring with The Dave Clark Five in 1964 and getting to watch recording sessions with legends like Frank Sinatra, describing the awe he felt seeing Sinatra perform live.

Taking Care of “Family”

Koch talks sincerely about his dedication to the Motion Picture and Television Fund, an organization that provides assistance and care for people who have worked in entertainment. He shares why supporting this charity is so important to him – they take care of “their people,” the crew members who become like family during productions.

“It’s the only charity I know of that is specifically to our industry…we take care of our own.”

Taming Faye Dunaway’s Hair

Koch tells a funny anecdote about shooting Chinatown, where director Roman Polanski pulled Faye Dunaway’s hair out in frustration when it kept sticking up despite efforts to fix it. This led to a blow-up argument between the director and actress.

Best Advice Ever Received

Hawk stresses the vital lesson he learned over his many years in the business – the importance of telling the truth and not trying to mislead people. He says any deception gets found out quickly on a movie set, so clear communication is everything.

“If you try to get around something on a movie set or with an actor or with anybody, you get in trouble because they can smell it…I found that communication on a movie, whether it’s in prep or in shooting or in post, communication’s everything. And as the leader, as a producer, if you’re not telling the truth to everybody, it gets found out.”

The full interview features many more colorful stories and insights. Hawk Koch proves to be a captivating storyteller who provides a rare look inside Hollywood over five incredible decades. To hear the full discussion, check out the Hawk Koch episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger.” It’s an entertaining and enlightening listen for any fan of great moviemaking tales.

For more information about Hawk Koch:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawk_Koch

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0462242/

Magic Time: https://magictime.pictures/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

The post Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes legendary producer, Hawk Koch. appeared first on Kevin Goetz.