entertainment industry Archives - Kevin Goetz

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes Legendary Agent, Producer, and Studio Executive Arnold Rifkin

Managing Editor - AB — Fri, 06 Jun 2025 11:56:10 +0000

Hollywood Power Broker Arnold Rifkin on Building Empires, Bruce Willis, and the Art of the Deal

Don’t Kill the Messenger host Kevin Goetz welcomes Arnold Rifkin, the legendary talent agent who pioneered the concept of a total talent agency and helped build one of Hollywood’s most recognizable action stars. From founding Triad Artists to leading William Morris’s film division and producing blockbuster films alongside Bruce Willis, Rifkin has shaped Hollywood from every angle. In this deeply personal conversation, Rifkin shares candid stories about deal-making, friendship, spiritual transformation, and the human side of the entertainment industry.

From Mink Sales to Hollywood Dreams

Arnold Rifkin’s journey to Hollywood power began with his father’s influence in an unexpected industry. His father Herman, known as “Hy,” was in the mink business and had a significant impact on young Arnold’s approach to negotiation:

“My father would go to the door and say, listen, here’s what I’m willing to pay, and if you don’t want that, I’m okay. And he would put his hand on the doorknob ready to leave and the guy would say, well, okay. I would’ve never known this, but it was literally how I did the Die Hard original deal.”

This “doorknob technique” would become Arnold’s signature negotiation style, serving him throughout his career. Despite his father’s success, Arnold learned about business through observation rather than instruction:

“He didn’t know it because I didn’t ask questions. I just watched. I learned by watching. I learned by listening. I didn’t talk much.”

Building an Agency Empire from $1,500

Rifkin’s entry into the entertainment business came through a chance meeting on an escalator with Nicole David, his brother Ron Rifkin’s close friend. Together, they founded their agency with just $1,500 in 1975:

“On an escalator. My brother’s closest friend was Nicole, and they had a relationship for years. That was it. And I had already now left the shoe business and I decided that I was going to become an agent. Why? I love the art of figuring out and selling.”

The partnership with Nicole David proved fortuitous, as she transitioned from actress to agent with natural instincts for the business. Rifkin recalls her unique approach:

“Nicole was becoming a better agent than an actress. Every time she didn’t get a job, she gave them an idea of who might be right and all of a sudden they’d be hiring people that she’d recommend. So she became an agent.”

Discovering Bruce Willis

One of the most pivotal moments in Rifkin’s career was meeting Bruce Willis, though he gives credit to his colleagues for the discovery:

“I have to give credit to the people that found Bruce. Gene Parseghian back in New York had seen him in True West. Cis Corman told Gene to go to the theater and see him. And then there was a show they were casting called Moonlighting.”

When Willis finally came to Rifkin’s office, the agent was immediately struck by his confidence:

“When he came into my office, he had a torn t-shirt, ripped jeans, and he pretended he was worth a billion dollars. He never doubted the fact. And he gave me the smirk. I knew the light in his eyes, and we became agent, and it was a journey.”

The casting of Willis in Moonlighting wasn’t straightforward. He had already been rejected twice and borrowed money from Sherry Rivera, Geraldo Rivera’s ex-wife, to fly to Los Angeles for another audition. Rifkin notes that Willis wasn’t the typical leading man: “He was not a typical leading man. Not at all. He had that brilliant quality of being self-effacing. And he was sexy. He had a swag.”

The Die Hard Deal That Changed Everything

Perhaps Rifkin’s most famous negotiation was securing Bruce Willis’s casting in Die Hard for an unprecedented $5 million. The deal came at a crucial time when major stars had passed on the project:

“With arrogance. Hubris. Because the first round they went to every famous actor. Nobody wanted to do it. Die Hard was a battery at Sears, that’s what that was. And we had come off of a movie that, I won’t tell you the title, and nobody went. And the worldwide gross was $3 million.”

Rifkin’s strategy was bold and calculated:

“I said upfront, there’s only two things that could possibly happen here. We either succeed or we fail. So you have to pay him enough money to justify either. Either you become a hero, or no one could deny the fact that how could you turn that down. And the number was what it became, what was it? Five.”

The deal created shockwaves throughout Hollywood:

“Press, I was banned from Warner Brothers. Everybody’s salaries went sky high. Mel Gibson wanted 5 million. Michael Douglas said, how could you pay me two and a half and he’s a nobody, and you pay him five. I got hammered. Every studio said, Rifkin, what did you do? A $5 million deal to somebody who just did one movie that failed and did $3.2 million?”

The Seagram’s Wine Cooler Campaign

Another testament to Rifkin’s negotiation prowess came with Edgar Bronfman and Seagram’s wine cooler campaign. When Bronfman initially balked at the price, Rifkin was willing to walk away:

“Edgar makes a proposal and he’s telling me what he wants. He wants the swag that Bruce has. Back in the day, there was the Marlboro guy, and now Bruce was the guy. So I gave Edgar a price, and he said, that’s way too much money. And I said, I don’t know how to fix it. If you’re not willing to pay, you wanna be one. And he said, okay, we’re done.”

A year later, Bronfman returned, having been unable to find the right spokesperson:

“Edgar comes back a year later and said, you know, I’ve seen 3000 men and I can’t find the guy that I want. So I’m back. He said, so I’m willing to pay you. I said, Edgar, it’s a year later. The inflation and all.”

The campaign was a massive success: “He paid a lot of money to get Bruce. And you know what? Within six months, he was number one.”

From Agent to Producer and Spiritual Transformation

After 35 years as an agent, Rifkin made the decision to leave the business and partner with Bruce Willis as a producer. This transition coincided with a profound spiritual transformation:

“I told Bruce that I was leaving, and Bruce said, well, what are you gonna do? And I said, well, I’m not totally sure, but I wanna see what the other side’s like, I want to know the people who make the decisions on that side. I wanna see what that’s like. And he said, let’s do it together. I said, cool.”

The spiritual journey began through his trainer, who introduced him to a Native American spiritual guide:

“This experience with the spiritual guide. I had a trainer who would come and see me twice a week. And each time I saw him, I’ve never seen eyes so white and clear. And I said to Kevin, I said, what is it that you do that when you come, you know, six o’clock in the morning, you look…and he told me about this gentleman. He told me about the sweats.”

This 15-year relationship with his spiritual guide, Richard, deeply influenced Rifkin’s approach to life and business:

“I connected with Richard. And for 15 years, he took me on a journey. And Cheyenne, the whole dragonfly thing just came to me when I started reading about the different tribes and it fit.”

Bruce Willis, More than Just a Client

The relationship between Rifkin and Willis transcended typical agent-client dynamics, becoming a brotherhood that has endured through Willis’s health challenges:

“We could finish each other’s sentences. Yeah. And we wore the same size sweaters. So metaphor, I mean. Yeah. We lived together. I mean, there’s no doubt.”

Rifkin speaks candidly about Willis’s complexity as a person and star:

“Bruce was, when fame hit, I don’t know that he knew how to behave yet. And there were moments where it was inappropriate and there were moments that were amazing. But I feel as though he was a great father. And he loved to laugh. He loved to make people laugh.”

The cultural impact of Willis as John McClane became clear to Rifkin during an unexpected moment after 9/11:

“We were trapped and we went for a walk in Central Park and to understand the gravity of Bruce’s persona, we are walking, and Bruce has got his hat on his glasses. Nobody knows who he is. And we listen to somebody say, where is John McClane when you need him? Man. That was like, what? That’s insane. That’s cultural impact.”

Maintaining Friendship Through Health Challenges

Today, Rifkin continues his friendship with Willis despite the actor’s health challenges:

“There was a time where we were not, and it wasn’t an acrimonious time. It was everybody needed to move on for a while. I got the phone call from Stephen Eads, and I knew a little bit about what was happening, but I was not involved. And Stephen called and said that he’d like to see you, and are you open to that? And I said, absolutely.”

Their Friday lunch tradition continues: “So ultimately there was a small group of us and Fridays we would have lunch, and we had great moments. And there’s moments when he smiles and you almost know that he remembers that moment that we’re laughing at or whatever.”

Honoring Bruce’s Legacy

Rifkin is now working on a documentary about Willis with his new company, Incite, alongside partners Jenner Furst and Justin Lee:

“Stephen and I both went to Emma at some point and said, we’re probably the only two people that know everything, between my vault and Stephen’s vault of memories. We’re the only people that could tell that story and tell it with love, tell it with authenticity. And give him the dignity of who he was.”

Life Philosophy – Abundance Over Scarcity

Reflecting on his decades in Hollywood, Rifkin shares the wisdom he’s gained:

“You have a choice. You can live in abundancy or you can live in scarcity. That’s my world. And it’s not about the car you drive, it’s really about what you feel. That’s what I would share to anybody as a 30-year-old.”

His management philosophy, which served him throughout his career, remains simple but powerful:

“Do not bring me problems. Bring me solutions. When we do solutions, we solve. You bring me a problem. I don’t need you. I can make problems on my own.”

Don’t miss the full conversation on Don’t Kill the Messenger to hear more about Arnold Rifkin’s Hollywood journey, his transformative deals, and his enduring friendship with Bruce Willis.

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

For more information about Arnold Rifkin:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Rifkin

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0726476/

Incite Studios: https://www.incite-studios.com/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram: @KevinGoetz360
Linked In @Kevin Goetz
Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

For deeper insights into what makes a movie resonate and succeed, don’t miss the upcoming book How to Score in Hollywood (September 2025) by entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz with Bob Levin. This book unveils the secrets behind success and profitability in the movie business, showcasing how smart, data-driven decisions—from development through release—can help filmmakers minimize risks and maximize returns.

Kevin, the founder and CEO of Screen Engine/ASI, is also the bestselling author of Audience-ology, host of the popular Don’t Kill the Messenger podcast, and a speaker who educates the filmmaking community through keynotes and global presentations. In 2024, he was honored with the prestigious American Cinematheque Power of Cinema Award for his transformative contributions to the film industry.

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Finding Your “And”: Kevin Goetz’s Journey from Actor to Audience Whisperer

Managing Editor - AB — Sat, 26 Apr 2025 04:09:51 +0000

In Hollywood, many unknown people working behind the scenes have a big impact on the final cuts of films. Kevin Goetz is one of them. The Los Angeles Times called him the ‘doctor of audience-ology’ because of his work testing movies with audiences before they’re released.

As the founder and CEO of Screen Engine/ASI, Goetz has tested more than 5,000 films with every major studio and streaming service. But what makes his story worth telling isn’t just his impressive career; it’s how he got there by discovering what he refers to as embracing his “and.”

From Movie Testing to Global Research

Screen Engine/ASI started with a focus on movie testing but has grown into much more. Today, it’s a global market research firm with over 300 employees serving clients across multiple industries.

“My firm tests. We diagnose. We prescribe a remedy,” Goetz writes in his book Audience•ology. “Occasionally, we must break the news that the patient is dead on arrival.”

While movie testing remains at Goetz’s core, Screen Engine/ASI now applies its research expertise to gaming, technology, consumer goods, healthcare, lifestyle, travel, and sports.

At the foundation is Goetz’s approach: understanding how entertainment consumers respond to content and brands. In Hollywood, this has earned him nicknames like “the movie whisperer”, but he prefers audience advocate, reflecting his mission to help creators connect with the people they’re trying to reach.

The Brooklyn Boy Makes Good: Kevin’s Early Years

Kevin Goetz was born in Brooklyn in the 60’s. From his earliest years, he was drawn to performance, practicing Oscar acceptance speeches in his bathroom mirror and begging his parents for singing, dancing, and music lessons.

“I had known that I belonged in show business from my first moment of consciousness,” he recalls.

At fifteen, Goetz ran away from his New Jersey home, if only for a day, to pursue acting. Using the money he earned from odd jobs, he took a bus to New York City, found a photographer to take his headshots, and found a dance studio to take classes. He also ultimately found a talent manager. This bold move convinced his reluctant parents that his interest in performing wasn’t just a phase.

By his late teens, Goetz was booking TV and radio commercials while studying at Rutgers University’s Mason Gross School of the Arts, one of the most respected acting conservatories in the country. But his entrepreneurial spirit was already emerging. During high school, he founded his own dance studio, which helped support his college education. Once he graduated and moved to New York City, he tried to buy the video store where he worked on weekends while pursuing his acting career.

“I decided that if I was going to work at a video store, I was going to be the greatest goddamn video store employee the world had ever seen,” he recounts. Though the owner, feeling threatened, fired him for being too ambitious, this early experience taught him valuable business lessons.

Discovering the Power of the “And”

The pivotal moment in Goetz’s story came during his transition from actor to researcher. After moving to Los Angeles to pursue acting, he took a part-time job with National Research Group (NRG), moderating focus groups at film test screenings. What began as a “survival job” gradually revealed itself as something more.

For years, Goetz maintained a dual identity: actor, singer, dancer, and ultimately producer on the one hand; focus group moderator of pre-released movies on the other. This division created tension, as if one path represented his dream and the other was merely a practical necessity.

The breakthrough came when he realized these weren’t competing identities but complementary parts of a whole. In his 2016 Rutgers alma mater commencement address, Goetz shared this epiphany:

“If I’m being totally honest, if someone told 21-year-old Kevin that this is what 53-year-old Kevin would be doing, I’d probably be disappointed, maybe even devastated, because it doesn’t jive with the specific vision I had for my life. It’s easy to get stuck, especially for artists. I implore you to keep an open mind and heart. I’m an artist AND an entrepreneur. That’s what I was always meant to be.”

This realization of finding his “and” became a defining principle. He elaborated during his keynote at the Insights Association conference in 2023:

“Every day I show up with my decades of experience as a researcher, strategist AND a creative, I show up with my ‘and.’ The ‘and’ is what connects our work with who we are.”

This integration doubled his effectiveness. His actor’s training gave him the emotional intelligence to read unspoken reactions in focus groups. His experience as a producer helped him speak the language of filmmaking and translate audience feedback into actionable suggestions. And his researcher mindset allowed him to analyze the feedback from individual respondents and patterns across thousands of screenings.

The Hollywood Tapestry

In 2024, during his acceptance speech for receiving the American Cinematheque’s Power of Cinema award, Goetz used a powerful metaphor: “What I can see clearly now is just how vast and rich the Hollywood tapestry is. How it somehow manages to fit so many of the twists and turns of my life and career.”

This image captures something essential about both Goetz’s story and his philosophy. Film is a collaborative medium, combining countless contributors, from directors, actors, and producers to editors, marketers, and audiences themselves.

As an “audience advocate,” Goetz plays a vital role in this tapestry. His work has led to innovative approaches to audience research. For one big action film in particular, he developed a strategy where he paused the movie midway and asked the audience: “What do you think will happen next? And what do you want to happen next?”

The approach of trusting the audience to help craft the ending led to reshoots that transformed the film into a multi-million dollar worldwide success.

Lessons from Kevin’s Journey

Goetz’s story offers valuable lessons beyond the film industry. His three principles provide a framework for anyone navigating their career:

“Own the video store” – Bring your full passion to everything you do and get the proper homework done to take it to the next level.
“If you can’t find a way, make a way” – Don’t wait for permission; create opportunities when they don’t exist.
“Find your ‘and'” – Recognize that seemingly disparate skills can become your unique strength.

This third principle has proven most powerful. As Goetz noted:

“When you bring your all—all of your experience, all of your love, all of yourself to the process—that’s when you start seeing a more full, interesting, and authentic story around what you are trying to accomplish. That’s when you get to the essence of what’s true… In those moments, you make magic.”

In a world that pushes us to specialize, Kevin Goetz reminds us of the power of embracing our multifaceted selves. His career demonstrates that our greatest strengths often lie at the intersection of seemingly unrelated passions and skills.

In finding his “and,” Kevin Goetz didn’t just build a successful business; he found a way to use human connection to help filmmakers and audiences speak to each other through the wonder of movies.

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Screen Engine/ASI Anniversary

Managing Editor - AB — Tue, 25 Feb 2025 06:44:24 +0000

Fifteen years ago, I embarked on a mission to transform market research methods and products. What began as an ambitious idea has evolved into my company, Screen Engine/ASI—a respected worldwide leader in content testing, campaign strategy, and brand health/growth. Today, we serve clients across diverse sectors, including media/entertainment, gaming, sports, lifestyle, CPG, and financial services, helping them make data-driven decisions.

A Legacy of Growth and Innovation

Since our founding in 2010, our commitment to understanding audiences and embracing new technologies has fueled our global growth. Our breakthrough research techniques and innovative digital solutions have helped shape the future of market research, delivering insights that empower businesses to thrive in today’s dynamic and competitive markets.

A Selection of Our State-of-the-Art Research Solutions

engineworks™: More than just a focus group facility, engineworks™ is a premier research hub in Los Angeles that specializes in audience and content testing, data collection, and strategic insights across multiple industries. Our advanced screening room capabilities allow us to conduct in-depth qualitative and quantitative research.
TicktBox®: A leading platform for digital ticketing and promotional distribution, enabling studios, brands, and organizations to effectively engage consumers.
Tapestry™: Our London-based team offers custom research and data science solutions that simplify complex audience measurement challenges.
LoveQuotient®: A powerful tool that uncovers the emotional drivers behind consumer behavior and brand preference.
virtuworks™: Our online screening platform offers secure, remote testing environments with patented security that deliver real-time audience insights.
Daisy ™ AI Survey Technology: Transforming traditional surveys into interactive, real-time conversations for more meaningful responses.
MindGame™ Gaming Tracking: An all-in-one metric that monitors gaming engagement, providing trend analysis, competitor benchmarking, and marketing insights.

A Commitment to Diversity, Equity, and Sustainability

We believe that diversity drives excellence. By integrating DEI strategies into our research, we capture a wide range of multicultural voices. Our in-house expertise in engaging multicultural audiences helps us analyze key trends, design targeted surveys, and facilitate focus groups with multi-language-speaking moderators. Additionally, our sustainability initiatives are designed to reduce environmental impact and guide our clients toward responsible, value-based decisions.

Honoring Our Journey and Looking Ahead

This milestone is a time to celebrate the people, breakthroughs, and partnerships that have shaped our success. As we look to the future, we remain committed to leveraging emerging technologies like AI and next-generation analytics to empower clients across all industries.

Thank you to our clients, partners, colleagues, and friends—your trust and collaboration have made this journey possible. Here’s to continued growth and success!

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes veteran marketing executive and former President of The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, Cheryl Boone Isaacs

Managing Editor - AB — Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:39:37 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes veteran marketing executive and former President of The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, Cheryl Boone Isaacs.

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with a trailblazing figure in the entertainment industry, Cheryl Boone Isaacs. As a public relations and marketing executive, Cheryl has worked on marketing campaigns for over 300 films, including Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Forrest Gump, and The King’s Speech. As the first African American and first person of color to serve as president of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, Cheryl shares her experiences, insights, and the journey that led her to become a pivotal force for change in Hollywood.

Kevin Goetz on diversity in Hollywood:

We have data that absolutely shows that voices, inclusive voices of, and I don’t mean simply race, I don’t mean color, I mean age, I mean different cultural languages, creates a more compelling discussion. Much better idea generation. This is a fact. I’ve done a lot of research around this, obviously since #OscarsSoWhite. And the truth of the matter is, why don’t people just get it?

Career Highlights and #OscarsSoWhite

Cheryl’s impressive career as a marketing and PR executive spans over 300 films, however, it was her role as Academy president during the #OscarsSoWhite movement that brought her to the forefront of industry change.

Reflecting on this pivotal moment, Cheryl shares:

My saying was, folks, we need to widen our lens. There is a lot of talent that’s being left behind. There’s an audience that is not being served. This is silly. And you asked about #OscarsSoWhite. I put it this way, I’m in the car, I am driving. It’s a stick shift. #OscarsSoWhite pushed me into fourth gear.

Early Career and Hollywood Journey

Cheryl’s path to Hollywood wasn’t straightforward. Growing up in Springfield, Massachusetts, with a postal worker father and stay-at-home mother, she initially aspired to be a musical comedy dancer. After a stint as a Pan Am stewardess, she found her way to Hollywood, despite her brother Ashley Boone’s (a prominent figure in the industry) initial discouragement.

Breaking Barriers in a Challenging Industry

Cheryl candidly discusses the challenges she faced as an African American woman in Hollywood:

When I would call up and make appointments, I would constantly be asked, are you one of Pat’s daughters, Pat Boone? And I would say, no, I’m not. And they would because of Bob, I think, take the meeting and every meeting after I would say, could you give me some names, so I could call? But it was always fun, not really, when the door would open and I’d just watch the face for a few minutes as we had to readjust to something different.

Notable African American Figures in Hollywood

Kevin asks Cheryl for her quick takes on influential individuals like Spike Lee, Ava DuVernay, and others.

Cheryl on calling Spike Lee about his honorary Oscar:

And one of my favorite things with Spike was when I called him to tell him. I called him and I said, Spike, I just want you to know I came out of the board meeting and I want you to know that we have selected you to be a recipient of an honorary Oscar from The Academy. His first words were, for real. For real, Cheryl? I’ll never forget that, ever. And I said, for real. He goes a real one, not a little one? I totally teared up.

Collaborative Nature of Filmmaking

As an educator at the Sidney Poitier New American Film School, Cheryl emphasizes the collaborative nature of filmmaking to her students:

It’s not one person and every department that comes together to actually bring what is written words onto a screen that elicits emotions for people is magic. It’s magic when you think about it. How does that happen? And it happens with a whole group of people from different disciplines who are all in support of the important thing, which is the story.

The Future of Hollywood and Diversity

Cheryl offers insights on the progress made and challenges ahead along with the importance of collaborative voices in the creative process.

Throughout her career, Cheryl Boone Isaacs has broken barriers. From her start in marketing, to her role as president of The Academy, and continuing with her current position of guiding future filmmakers at the Sidney Poitier New American Film School, Boone Isaacs offers valuable lessons for those entering the film world, reinforcing the importance of diversity, collaboration, and perseverance in Hollywood. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

A note from Kevin Goetz on the upcoming episode:

We are just around the corner from celebrating our 50th episode of my podcast, Don’t Kill the Messenger. We have a lot in store for you, including an upcoming special interview with visionary director, Ron Howard. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss it. And for this milestone, we would love to know who’s listening out there. Please visit my website at KevinGoetz360.com for the link. And through August, everyone who connects will be entered into a drawing for our special 50th episode celebration t-shirt giveaway. As always, I’m grateful for your support of my book Audienceology, and in helping to spread the word about my podcast. Thanks, everyone.

For more information about Cheryl Boone Isaacs:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Boone_Isaacs

Sidney Poitier New American Film School: https://search.asu.edu/profile/4102960

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3723795/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes the directing, producing, and writing team of Will Speck and Josh Gordon

Managing Editor - AB — Wed, 07 Aug 2024 14:31:18 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes the directing, producing, and writing team of Will Speck and Josh Gordon.

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews the directing, producing, and writing team of Will Speck and Josh Gordon. This talented duo has made their mark across various media, directing feature films such as Blades of Glory, Office Christmas Party, and Lyle, Lyle, Crocodile. They’ve also created iconic commercials, including the Geico caveman and gecko campaigns, and ventured into television with their animated series Hit Monkey on Hulu. The pair discusses their journey from film school to becoming successful filmmakers, their experiences with test screenings, and insights into their creative process across different mediums.

Will Speck on partnership with Josh Gordon:

I mean, I know this is going to sound corny. I think our relationship is something that’s the biggest success because I feel like we’ve evolved as people and we’ve gone through so much together and we still feel excited about working together. And I feel like that’s something that I’m really excited about and feels really good.

Film School and an Early Partnership

The duo’s partnership began at NYU film school. Josh recalls, “We became friends in our sort of second year. We were both transfer students into the film program.” Their collaboration started with writing and eventually led to co-directing their senior film. Will adds, “We seem to work so well together. A very strange choice. But we did it and the film was great and got a lot of attention.”

Blades of Glory and an Intense Audience Screening

Their first feature, Blades of Glory, also marked their introduction to test screenings. Josh describes the experience:

And then we went down and it was just the focus group and it was 20 people. And we went and sat right in the row right behind the focus group. And so I just remember the blood in my ears just throbbing. I was like, oh my God, I’m gonna get fired off my first movie. This is such a disaster. And you started with the first question, how many people liked the movie? And everybody’s hands wet up.

This screening taught them valuable lessons about audience reactions and the importance of a strong ending in comedies.

“Even a Caveman can do it” — Commercial Work

Speck and Gordon’s commercial work, including the famous Geico campaigns, has significantly influenced their filmmaking. Will explains, “We created the Geico gecko and like we had done like a lot of commercials that were really kind of seminal work.” Will goes on, “It’s a fun way to actually meet, as Josh said, the DPs, production designers, and costume designers that we’ve been afforded to work with as a consequence of commercials.”

Recent Projects and Creative Growth

Their animated series Hit Monkey on Hulu showcases their ability to work across different mediums. Josh shares the project’s origin: “We’d almost been hired by Marvel several times to do movies over the years… We sort of picked Hit Monkey out of the pile and it was something that just really spoke to us. It’s dark, emotional, comedic, but really kind of, it’s almost a Yakuza revenge saga.”

Will expresses pride in their recent musical film Lyle, Lyle, Crocodile: “I’m really proud of the last movie we made just because we, I’d always wanted to make a musical and the process was so fun… It was so joyous. Like every day everybody was super into it and invested.”

Career Reflections and Advice to Young Filmmakers

Reflecting on their careers, Josh shares a particularly impactful project:

It was a PSA, which is a public service announcement that we did for organ donation. And it was called The World’s Biggest Asshole. And it kind of became a huge viral thing in 2017, 2018. And it was the same agency that we had done the Geico work with. And they came to us with this spec, which was basically that young men don’t sign up for organ donation. And the reason why is because the advertising is too soft and too kind of usually religious based. And they had this idea which was, you can be the world’s biggest asshole, it doesn’t matter who you are, if you just tick the box, you essentially resurrect yourself. And that was the only thing they gave us. And we kind of were able to write the script, cast it, shoot it, and we pulled in a huge number of favors from our commercial contacts and we shot it. And it was just an incredibly pure experience that still to this day I look at and go, I want to work in that way again. I want to do something like that.

Their advice to young filmmakers? Josh emphasizes, “Trust your gut more and just go with things and don’t try to self-analyze. Don’t try to outthink everything.”

Upcoming Projects and Industry Outlook

Looking ahead, Speck and Gordon are developing new projects, including an adaptation of “The Wedding People” with Nicole Holofcener. They remain optimistic about the industry’s future despite its challenges. Josh notes:

The industry is always perpetually in bad shape. And you look at some of the greatest movies were made during the worst periods… We now live in a time where there’s a plethora of these things. So yes, it’s hard and it will always be hard, but I think you just have to kind of carve your path and make the movies that you want to make in the best or worst of times.

Will Speck and Josh Gordon offer a unique perspective on navigating the film industry as a writing, directing, and producing duo. Their experience across different mediums – from commercials to feature films to streaming content – demonstrates the value of maintaining a varied portfolio of work while continually pushing creative boundaries and nurturing a productive partnership. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about Will Speck and Josh Gordon:

Speck Gordon, Inc.: https://www.speckgordon.com/home

IMDB (Josh Gordon): https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330347/

IMDB (Will Speck): https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0817447/

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Speck_and_Josh_Gordon

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes producer, studio executive, and bestselling author, DeVon Franklin

Managing Editor - AB — Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:16:30 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes producer, studio executive, and bestselling author, DeVon Franklin.

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, Kevin Goetz sits down with DeVon Franklin, a studio executive, film and TV producer, bestselling author, and motivational speaker. Franklin is known for his work on inspirational films such as Breakthrough, Miracles from Heaven, and Flaming Hot, as well as the BET series Kingdom Business. With a unique blend of faith, business savvy, and creative vision, Franklin has bridged the gap between mainstream entertainment and faith-based content. The conversation explores Franklin’s journey in the entertainment industry, his approach to faith-based filmmaking, and his insights on what makes a successful movie.

Kevin Goetz on DeVon Franklin:

There is a leitmotif that runs through DeVon Franklin. And it’s one of spirituality, it’s one of grace. It’s one of the values that you and I share of making people feel a certain way. Making people feel really good about themselves and acknowledging and living in gratitude.

Early Influences and Career Beginnings

Franklin’s strong spiritual foundation was laid early in life. He credits his mother for instilling important values: “She always had us in church. She always had us learn in our memory verses our scripture verses when we were younger.” This upbringing would later inform his career choices and content creation.

His entry into Hollywood began with an internship while still in college at Hand Print Entertainment which eventually became Overbrook Entertainment, Will Smith’s production company. Franklin recalls, “I got an internship working for the company that managed Will Smith and Jada and Jennifer Lopez and so many great talents.” This experience proved invaluable, teaching him the ins and outs of the industry.

Rising Through the Ranks

Franklin’s career trajectory took him from intern to studio executive. At Sony Pictures, he oversaw marketing for projects like The Pursuit of Happyness, coming full circle with Will Smith.

Franklin on marketing The Pursuit of Happyness to a faith-based demographic:

I was able to successfully execute on that plan and took Will across the country to different events in the faith-based space, and worked on him doing these personalized greetings to the top churches in the top 10 to 12 markets, along with the faith-based trailer that we released to churches all across the country. And anyway, it was a massive success. And so that contribution to Pursuit of Happyness was really instrumental in its success.

Defining Faith-Based Films

When discussing what constitutes a faith-based film, Franklin offered this insight: “The subject matter and the main character’s through line is fundamentally rooted in a spiritual idea.” He emphasized the importance of marketability alongside personal connection: “Can I actually take this message, take this story, and market it to an audience that I believe will want it?”

DeVon Franklin on deciding which films to back:

Does it touch me personally? Is this story as a man of God, a person of faith, is this story affecting my faith? Is it touching my faith? Is it inspiring my faith? Strengthening my faith? That’s first where it starts, just my own personal, like, oh yeah, you know, I’m a person of faith and this really is helping me. And then the second thing is marketability. Can I actually take this message, take this story, and market it to an audience that I believe will want it? And so sometimes I might find a story that I connect to as a person of faith, but then I don’t think I can sell it. So, I don’t do it. And there are some other stories that I don’t connect to that I think, oh man, this is probably very marketable, but it’s not for me.

Understanding the Audience

Franklin’s success in faith-based filmmaking stems from his deep understanding of his audience. He shared a valuable lesson learned from Will Smith: “Let’s not let ego stand in the way of telling the best stories. So if we have a process that all ideas are welcome, the best idea wins, the best director wins, like, if we have that process, the process is going to lead us to success.”

Current Projects and Partnerships

Exciting projects are on the horizon for Franklin. He’s working on Relationship Goals for Amazon and has partnered with Tyler Perry to produce faith-based movies for Netflix. About the partnership, Franklin said:

“It’s kind of like one a year at a minimum, a minimum of three over the four-year term. And then it can be more than that. And so, the first one that we’re doing is called R and B. It’s based upon the Bible story of the love story of Ruth and Boaz. And so we’re doing an update of that love story and we’re calling it R and B. So that is a movie that I love because I’ve never had the opportunity to do a Bible story in kind of a modern way. And I think it’ll appeal to his audience and my audience and we’re really excited about that.”

Learning from Challenges

Franklin also reflected on projects that faced challenges, such as the animated film The Star. He noted, “To my knowledge, there’s never been a mainstream faith-based animated movie… that’s been released by a major studio.” This experience provided valuable lessons about audience expectations and marketing strategies in the faith-based market.

DeVon Franklin’s journey in Hollywood serves as a testament to the power of combining faith, business acumen, and a deep understanding of audiences. Throughout the conversation, Franklin offers insights into the nuances of faith-based filmmaking, the importance of marketing strategies, and the evolving landscape of entertainment. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about DeVon Franklin:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeVon_Franklin

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/devonfranklin/

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2035952/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG.

Managing Editor - AB — Mon, 10 Jun 2024 14:36:08 +0000

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG.

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” Kevin Goetz sits down with director and producer, Joseph McGinty Nichol, better known as McG. They discuss McG’s journey in the entertainment industry.

McG exploded on the scene with his directorial debut, Charlie’s Angels, which had, at the time, the highest-grossing opening weekend for a directorial debut. Through his production company, Wonderland Sound and Vision, McG has overseen the production of films and television shows such as Terminator Salvation, This Means War, We Are Marshall, and Family Switch along with The OC, and Turner and Hooch for television. In this personal conversation, McG also touches on his struggles with agoraphobia, and the importance of audience feedback in the filmmaking process.

Kevin Goetz on McG:

“You have extraordinary EQ. You are blessed with it. It is definitely a superpower of yours. And I am so glad that you opened up to me today and shared your stories and people are going to really respond to this. You are a very special man in my life, and I so respect you and your talent.”

First-Time Director with a Huge Budget

McG shares his experience directing his first full-length feature film, Charlie’s Angels, and how Drew Barrymore’s support was crucial in securing the job. However, the studio had doubts about his direction, as McG reveals:

I acted out the whole movie in real-time. I did all three parts. I stood up on the table and did it. Amy and Lucy were looking at me like I was outta my mind. Arms crossed, terrible nonverbals, shaking their head like, this guy’s dead to us. Drew’s there cheering me on. And then begrudgingly at the end, it was a real moment of Drew’s like he’s doing it or I’m not. And begrudgingly they hired me. And then the rest is Hollywood history as they say. And it worked out. And I was nearly fired off that movie six, eight times.

Living with Agoraphobia and Panic Attacks

McG opens up about his struggles with agoraphobia and how it affected his career, including being fired from Superman Returns. He shares:

I couldn’t get on the plane. That night I got fired. Tough, tough call. Ari Emanuel comes over to my house to share the news but also to stand by my side to Ari’s credit, it was a real standup moment that I’ll always owe him for. Got a letter the next day from the head of legal at Warner’s. These people are all my dear friends saying, we reserve the right to sue you for the damages you’ve caused to the film by not telling us about your problem. And that ultimately got me to limp in to see these two women at UCLA, one a psychiatrist, one a behavioral therapist that helped me start to put one foot in front of the other and start to try to overcome this disorder.

Music Videos and Style in Filmmaking

Kevin and McG discuss how music videos have influenced filmmakers like McG, Spike Jonze, and David Fincher, helping them develop unique styles and voices in the industry. McG explains, “It’s so insightful that you bring that up because what a class that was in the nineties and the way it would work was a record label would send out a song, the new Closer by Nine Inch Nails. And Fincher would write on it, Spike would write on it, I would write on it. F. Gary Gray would write on it. Hype Williams, Ratner, all these people that were part of this group, Francis Lawrence. And you can imagine how different the takes would be and how the final expression of what that is for the artist was it was all over the place. What you get from Michael Bay versus what you get from Spike Jonze, Michel Gondry. I mean those are really different expressions.”

The Secret to Success: Audience Testing

McG reveals one of his secrets to success: working with Kevin Goetz and his audience testing process, which has helped him improve his films and connect with viewers.

McG on listening to the audience:

If you know how to incorporate that invaluable feedback, you can improve your film to such a degree that it’s to everyone’s benefit, most of which the audience.

Incorporating Audience Feedback on We Are Marshall

McG recalls a specific audience feedback moment that led to a significant change in “We Are Marshall,” highlighting the importance of listening to, learning from, and respecting the audience. He shares, “We are Marshal. I completely changed the manner in which the plane crashed because of you. The inciting incident of the whole film’s a tragic film. Football teams flying home from a game, the plane crashes, they lose the whole football team. The town builds itself back up from the ashes. And you and I are working on that movie and I overdid it. The plane crash was too violent. It was taking people out of it. And the way I ultimately expressed that was probably five or six frames. And we talk about there’s 24 frames in a second movie. So it’s very, very brief. This five or six, just the beginnings of it. And I got it out and you gave me that tip and it revolutionized the movie. And the movie scored far better because of it.”

Mentors and Influences

McG discusses his primary filmmaking influences, including Alfred Hitchcock and Quentin Tarantino. He also mentions a high school psychology teacher who played a significant role in his personal growth and career path.

McG on Alfred Hitchcock:

And then speaking of camera, I mean, you look at Rope, which they had to hide some cuts ’cause the film would run out, but meant to be a single shot. And I would just marvel at that whole thing. And to this day, I still try to build in one big oner in every movie I do.

The interview highlights the unique bond between the filmmaker and the audience researcher, showcasing how their collaboration can elevate a film’s success. The pair close by discussing McG’s upcoming projects, Way of the Warrior Kid and Uglies with Joey King. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

For more information about McG:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McG

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mcgfilm/

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0629334/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

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Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes legendary producer, Hawk Koch.

Managing Editor - AB — Tue, 23 Jan 2024 19:15:16 +0000

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” host Kevin Goetz has a lively and enlightening conversation with legendary Hollywood producer Hawk Koch. With over 50 years in the movie business, Koch has countless stories to share from his prolific career working on classic films like Chinatown, Marathon Man, Heaven Can Wait, and Wayne’s World. He offers a rare insider’s perspective on working with icons like Clark Gable, Ingrid Bergman, Jimmy Stewart, and Barbra Streisand. Koch has worked on countless classic films and with many iconic talents. He gave host Kevin Goetz a rare insider’s perspective, sharing entertaining stories and hard-earned wisdom. Here are some highlights from their conversation:

What’s in a Name?

Koch talks about changing his name at age 50 when he was bar mitzvahed, taking on the nickname “Hawk” to establish his own identity apart from his famous father, producer Howard W. Koch.

“I just realized for 49 years I’ve had my father’s name. I want my own name. And then he said to me, the words that changed my life, this amazing rabbi said to me, you can have your own name.”

Riding Horses with Clark Gable

Koch reminisces fondly about getting his first horseback ride as a 4-year-old from Clark Gable on a movie set. He describes feeling Gable’s warmth and humanity even in that brief 30-second interaction, as the iconic actor picked him up and put Koch in front of him on the saddle.

Working with Legends

Koch shares his experience early in his career working with and being in the presence of classic actors like Jimmy Stewart on the set of Fool’s Parade. He was awe-struck, barely able to speak in Stewart’s presence and realizing he was working with a legend. Koch also describes a similar feeling when seeing Ingrid Bergman for the first time during wardrobe tests for Cactus Flower.

Icon Lightning Round

When asked for rapid impressions, Koch gives funny and candid takes on industry figures he’s worked with like calling Roman Polanski the best technical director he’s worked with, Warren Beatty a procrastinator and perfectionist, and noting Faye Dunaway was the toughest actress he ever had to work with.

Getting His Start in the Music Business

Hawk discusses his start working in music thanks to a chance dinner meeting. This led to him touring with The Dave Clark Five in 1964 and getting to watch recording sessions with legends like Frank Sinatra, describing the awe he felt seeing Sinatra perform live.

Taking Care of “Family”

Koch talks sincerely about his dedication to the Motion Picture and Television Fund, an organization that provides assistance and care for people who have worked in entertainment. He shares why supporting this charity is so important to him – they take care of “their people,” the crew members who become like family during productions.

“It’s the only charity I know of that is specifically to our industry…we take care of our own.”

Taming Faye Dunaway’s Hair

Koch tells a funny anecdote about shooting Chinatown, where director Roman Polanski pulled Faye Dunaway’s hair out in frustration when it kept sticking up despite efforts to fix it. This led to a blow-up argument between the director and actress.

Best Advice Ever Received

Hawk stresses the vital lesson he learned over his many years in the business – the importance of telling the truth and not trying to mislead people. He says any deception gets found out quickly on a movie set, so clear communication is everything.

“If you try to get around something on a movie set or with an actor or with anybody, you get in trouble because they can smell it…I found that communication on a movie, whether it’s in prep or in shooting or in post, communication’s everything. And as the leader, as a producer, if you’re not telling the truth to everybody, it gets found out.”

The full interview features many more colorful stories and insights. Hawk Koch proves to be a captivating storyteller who provides a rare look inside Hollywood over five incredible decades. To hear the full discussion, check out the Hawk Koch episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger.” It’s an entertaining and enlightening listen for any fan of great moviemaking tales.

For more information about Hawk Koch:

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawk_Koch

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0462242/

Magic Time: https://magictime.pictures/

For more information about Kevin Goetz:

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