Die with Your Memories, Not Your Dreams”: A Conversation with Producer David Permut
In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sits down with acclaimed producer David Permut, the visionary behind films like Face/Off, Hacksaw Ridge (Academy Award nominee for Best Picture), Dragnet, and most recently, Rustin. His films have garnered multiple Academy Award nominations, and he is known for his exceptional ability to discover new talent and bring challenging stories to the screen. From selling star maps as a teenager to executive producing with Barack and Michelle Obama, Permut shares candid stories about his remarkable journey in Hollywood.
Early Beginnings and Star Maps
As a teenager, Permut got his start in Hollywood as the publisher of Beverly Hills Map Company. “I think sitting on that corner changed my life substantially,” he recalls. “I’m interfacing with all kinds of people, tourists. And I’m also interfacing with Fred Astaire and Elvis Presley who lived around the corner. And Katharine Hepburn who came by in the 57 T-Bird.”
This early experience provided more than just income – it offered valuable lessons in negotiation and human interaction. “The maps started at $3. They would go to two, they would go to a dollar. It was Tijuana in Beverly Hills,” Permut laughs. “So you know, whatever the market would bear.”
Learning from Bill Sargent
Permut’s first major break came through meeting promoter Bill Sargent. “He was like PT Barnum.”
The relationship began when Permut’s father met Sargent in a bar: “My dad comes home one night and I guess I was around 16 or so… He said, ‘I met a guy tonight who’s gonna reunite The Beatles.’ I go, ‘Dad, gimme a break.'” But Sargent proved to be legitimate, having produced “Hamlet” with Richard Burton and “The T.A.M.I. Show” featuring The Rolling Stones and James Brown.
Richard Pryor Live in Concert
Following the success of Give ‘em Hell, Harry! Permut produced Richard Pryor’s groundbreaking concert film. “That paved the way for Richard Pryor. That did 32 and a half million dollars,” he remembers.”
Face/Off: From Shelf to Screen
One of Permut’s most notable achievements was rescuing Face/Off from development hell at Warner Brothers. “When I came across Face/Off, holy shit, what a concept. Two guys switching faces. Oh my God.” He believed in the project so much that he invested his own money, writing a check for “a hundred thousand for a 90-day option.” The film became a major hit, and a sequel is now in development with Adam Wingard directing.
The Making of Hacksaw Ridge
The 17-year journey to bring Desmond Doss’s story to screen exemplifies Permut’s persistence. When first hearing about Doss, he was skeptical: “I said, well first of all, it’s not a true story. I don’t believe it. How can a guy not, you have to be trained in riflery to protect yourself and other men if you’re on the front lines… So, well I quickly found out it was true.”
The film’s path to production required creativity and international collaboration: “The fine citizens of Australia, had it not been for them, with our 40% rebate being the only American me, Bill, and Vince Vaughn, and Andrew Garfield, total Aussie below the line and above the line, that film may not have gotten made.”
Rustin and Working with the Obamas
Permut’s collaboration with Barack and Michelle Obama’s Higher Ground Productions came at a crucial moment: “Right before they announced starting the company? I heard a rumor they were starting the company and I was able to reach out… And that’s the key to the door that made that picture happen.”
The film aligns with Permut’s belief in Harry Warner’s “three E’s”: “Educate, enlighten, and entertain. And that truly is the power of the business because look, I’m closer to the end than the beginning. So if I can make films that speak to that, that’s really to me, the goal we all have.”
Looking to the Future
Today, Permut remains passionate about discovering new talent: “For me, the real challenge and why I go to Toronto and why I never miss Sundance and I see five movies every day for 10 days… It never fails that I discover the gold nugget. The gold nugget is the next generation of filmmakers.”
Throughout his career, Permut has maintained his outsider’s perspective while becoming one of Hollywood’s most successful producers. “I feel like I’m an outsider, not an insider in this business. I’ve always felt that way and still do,” he reflects. “It’s just weird for me because I’m living my dream and it’s like I’m ready for somebody to pat me on the shoulder and say, ‘Hey, the gig is up.'”
Throughout this engaging conversation, David Permut embodies his own philosophy: “Die with your memories, not your dreams.” From selling star maps to producing Oscar-nominated films, his journey demonstrates the power of passion and persistence in Hollywood. Whether creating blockbusters or meaningful dramas, Permut’s enthusiasm for discovering new talent and telling important stories remains as strong as ever.
Don’t miss the full conversation on “Don’t Kill the Messenger” to hear more about Elizabeth Gabler’s remarkable journey and insights into some of Hollywood’s most memorable films.
Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.
For more information about David Permut:
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Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com
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Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com
For deeper insights into what makes a movie resonate and succeed, don’t miss the upcoming book How to Score in Hollywood (September 2025) by entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz with Bob Levin. This book unveils the secrets behind success and profitability in the movie business, showcasing how smart, data-driven decisions—from development through release—can help filmmakers minimize risks and maximize returns.
Kevin, the founder and CEO of Screen Engine/ASI, is also the bestselling author of Audience-ology, host of the popular Don’t Kill the Messenger podcast, and a speaker who educates the filmmaking community through keynotes and global presentations. In 2024, he was honored with the prestigious American Cinematheque Power of Cinema Award for his transformative contributions to the film industry.
