Key Takeaways from Don’t Kill the Messenger Podcast with Kevin Goetz

For more than two decades, Ric Roman Waugh has been making commercial action films that have something to say. Through a career that began in the stunt world and evolved through years of screenwriting, he has built a reputation as one of the most distinctive voices in action cinema. In a recent conversation on Kevin Goetz’s podcast Don’t Kill the Messenger, Waugh revealed the philosophy, mentors, and lessons behind films like Felon, Snitch, Shot Caller, Angel Has Fallen, Greenland, and Shelter.

Early Days in the Stunt World

Waugh grew up in the movie business. His father, Fred Waugh, was a founding member of Stunts Unlimited, the legendary stunt collective led by Hal Needham. But rather than simply inheriting a career, Waugh used his proximity to the industry to study how films are actually made, and how the best filmmakers lead.

The directors who left the deepest impression were the ones who elevated everyone around them. Tony Scott and Jerry Bruckheimer became Waugh’s greatest influences, not just as creative forces but also as examples for building a collaborative set.

“I love the way that he commanded by respecting everybody around him and asking them to be the rock stars that’ll make him shine. And so I’ve always tried to have that collaborative experience for everybody that I’m involved with from the very beginning of my development phase to prep, to shooting.”

Bruckheimer reinforced the same lesson in a different way, with direct, honest feedback that Waugh came to rely on.

“He was another one that was a great mentor to me of shooting me straight. Even when I had it wrong, he would call me on it and say, ‘No, did you look at this angle?’ And that’s what you need. You need people around you because this business is so tricky.”

Hal Needham, the godfather of the stunt world, taught Waugh about character and loyalty. Waugh recalls Needham showing up to his father’s memorial service despite being gravely ill himself, saying simply, “I hate funerals. I don’t go to anybody’s funeral, but your dad meant the world to me. I told him I’d be there, and I’m here.” Needham passed away the following year. It was the kind of gesture that defined what the stunt community meant to Waugh, as well as the kind of person he has worked to become.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes Oscar-winning producer and Hollywood mogul, Brian Grazer

In this episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews legendary producer Brian Grazer. As co-founder of Imagine Entertainment with Ron Howard, Grazer’s films and television shows have earned 47 Oscar nominations and 242 Emmy nominations, with his movies grossing nearly $15 billion globally. Known for hits like A Beautiful Mind (which won him the Academy Award for Best Picture), Apollo 13, and Friday Night Lights, Grazer opens up about the power of curiosity, the secret to his 40-year partnership with Ron Howard, and the magic of connecting with audiences through emotionally elevated storytelling.

Kevin Goetz on Brian Grazer:

You are one of my favorite people in the entire business for so many years and for so many reasons. There’s a sense of humility that you have that you’ve retained despite your enormous success, and I think that’s your superpower.

A transformative moment came when Grazer watched E.T. at the Cinerama Dome. This experience would shape his entire approach to filmmaking and define the kind of emotional impact he wanted his own movies to have:

“Always going to a movie theater was the experience that was really hostile and aggressive, fighting for a parking spot, fighting for a ticket, trying to get in the line for the food and hope your seat doesn’t get taken. Endless stuff like that… The movie E.T., everyone did exactly the same thing, aggression, but the end of the movie, zero aggression, zero, no pushing, no shoving, people’s consciousness, emotional energy, everything was elevated in a transcendent way… And I thought, I want to make movies that lead to an ending like that, where you are elevated, you’re inspired, it’s aspirational.”

Oscar Night Memories

Grazer’s refreshingly candid account of winning an Academy Award reveals both the pressure and joy of the moment. His vulnerability in sharing this experience offers a rare glimpse into the reality of Hollywood’s biggest night:

“The thing that heightened my sense of nerves was in the front row of the Oscars were all of the female stars that were making a difference in that generation. Renee Zellweger, Julia Roberts, Meryl Streep, Nicole Kidman… And I saw Nicole Kidman’s lips move like, Brian, you can do it. And it was so moving to me… because all those girls knew me personally.”

The Art of Human Connection

Throughout his career, Grazer has approached every world “with a beginner’s mind, with complete innocence, whether it’s science, medicine, politics, religion, all art forms.” This philosophy led to two books about the power of curiosity and human connection. His approach to decision-making remains deeply informed by these countless conversations: “I’m not coming to any decision that’s certainly creative as a dilettante. I’ve talked to such a variety of people and really paid attention.”

Grazer’s remarkable career demonstrates the power of curiosity, emotional storytelling, and human connection in creating impactful entertainment. From his early days selling newspaper subscriptions to winning an Oscar for A Beautiful Mind, Grazer’s journey shows how maintaining humility, following one’s instincts, and seeking deeper meaning in stories can lead to a legacy of success in Hollywood.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes producer and former executive at 20th Century Fox, Susan Cartsonis

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” host Kevin Goetz sits down with Susan Cartsonis, a renowned producer and former studio executive known for championing women’s stories in Hollywood. From 20th Century Fox to independent producing, Susan has been behind hits like What Women Want, Where the Heart Is, Nell, Dying Young, and Aquamarine. She shares her journey in the film industry, her passion for storytelling, and her commitment to bringing diverse perspectives to the screen.

Susan Cartsonis on the importance of inclusive stories:

Entertainment elevates us. It inspires us. It makes us feel that everything’s possible and women in the world need that as well. Our movies go where we have no diplomatic relations internationally. They speak to cultures, they change people’s DNA. It’s really, really important and it’s important to have it to uplift the people who it’s about and also to educate, but not educate in a didactic way, in a way that just sort of infiltrates people’s souls and changes the way that they think about things and think about people.

From Theater to Hollywood Executive: Susan’s Early Career

Susan’s journey into the film industry began after her theater studies. She recalls her start as a reader at 20th Century Fox in New York: “I love to read. I love good books. And I was getting to read these books. I read books like The Handmaid’s Tale. I got to read all kinds of books that later became things. I read Sleeping with the Enemy, which I gave a strong recommend to, said it was a Hitchcockian thriller, and later got to champion it because my career evolved.”

One of Susan’s most memorable moments came when she stood up to Barry Diller in a high-stakes meeting:

“I said, I think audiences will come see it. And it was an out of body experience. Did somebody just say something? Oh my God, that was me. I knew that it wasn’t Woman in Peril story. It was the story of a woman transforming herself and fighting back. That transformation was essential.

The Importance of Inclusion and Female Leadership

Kevin and Susan discuss the value of inclusive storytelling and advocate for more female leadership in Hollywood and beyond: “I think there needs to be more and more female leadership in Hollywood because I think where women lead, often more inclusion follows because we are very collaborative and inclusive by nature.”

Balancing Art and Audience in Filmmaking

Kevin and Susan discuss the delicate balance between honoring artistic vision and meeting audience expectations in film production. On the delicate balance between artistic vision and audience expectations, Susan notes: “we’re not putting a play on in a park that everybody’s volunteering to be in. We’re spending millions of dollars on a business that is a finite business. If a movie doesn’t cost that much, you can take chances. You can make a Dogma film and light it with candles and natural light.”

The Value of Audience Testing and Interpretation

Susan praises Kevin’s ability to interpret audience feedback and find the “note beneath the note” in test screenings. Susan on the audience testing process:

It’s about getting the note beneath the note. That’s always a really important thing to learn as a student, that an audience may tell you something. They may say that they hate a scene, but really without that hated scene, the movie doesn’t work at all, and their hatred is because the character is incredibly scary and unlikeable, and the note beneath the note is it’s fierce and the thing that’s not working might be something else. But the note beneath the note is really important. Kevin, you’ve been very, very helpful in testing. You have a really good radar for hearing what the audience is saying beneath what they’re saying. They’re saying one thing, and yet they mean another. That often happens.

Susan Cartsonis’ passion for women’s voices and her experiences as both a studio executive and producer provide listeners with a unique perspective on the film industry. From her work on blockbusters like Nell and Buffy the Vampire Slayer to more recent projects like Carrie Pilby and Beastly, Susan’s career highlights the power of storytelling and the importance of female representation in film.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes Grammy-nominated executive and President of Sony Music Group, Spring Aspers

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” host Kevin Goetz sits down with Spring Aspers, the Grammy-nominated President of Sony Pictures Music Group. With a career spanning from intern to President, Spring has become a powerhouse in the film music industry. Her work on blockbuster soundtracks like Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse has earned her critical acclaim and a Grammy nod. As the executive behind numerous hit movie soundtracks and a champion for emerging artists, Spring shares her process for choosing music for a film’s soundtrack, and discusses the details of music supervision in film.

Kevin Goetz on Music in Film:

Music is vital in a movie — enhancing emotions, setting the tone, and aiding storytelling. It deepens viewer engagement by amplifying the impact of scenes and seamlessly transitioning between moments, shaping the overall film experience. It truly can make or break a movie.

Spring’s unconventional upbringing in New York’s art scene shaped her passion for music. She recalls, “I grew up in this arena of creativity around a lot of music, painting, art. All of it was just uniformly together in the environment.”

Challenges in Film Music

Spring discusses the unique challenges of integrating music into the filmmaking process:

“Just that music comes lastly. You try to get it in earlier, but you have this huge machine of a movie and music is always the icing on the cake, it can be part of the DNA. Absolutely.”

The Future of Music: AI and the Human Touch

When asked about AI’s impact on the music industry, Spring offers a balanced perspective:

It’s like there’s energy that cannot be replaced by tech. The natural world has an energy, and when you’re in a movie theater and you’re laughing or you’re scared or you’re crying like in It Ends with Us, I weep out of beauty and grace and sadness. I weep in that movie. There’s nothing that can replace you being around a group of humans experiencing that. And the same as in a concert. You can see something online, but it’s never going to be the same as when you’re singing along in a concert with other human beings. You cannot replace that. And I say a lot, the movie going experience to me, I use this analogy, theatricality is a lot like vinyl. It’s something tangible. Vinyl’s been around. It’s an old model. It’s been around forever, yet it’s still here. It’s still thriving because you can touch it and you can share it.

In this refreshingly musical episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, Spring Aspers offers her insight on the intersection of music and film, emphasizing the importance of creativity and the power of music to enhance storytelling. Her passion for discovering new talent and creating memorable cinematic experiences shines throughout the conversation, providing listeners with valuable insights into the world of music in film.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes super agents and producers, Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita

In a recent episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz sat down with Hollywood power couple Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita to discuss their impressive careers as agents and producers. With decades of experience in the entertainment industry, Wagner and Nicita offer a unique perspective on the world of talent representation, film production, and the changing landscape of Hollywood.

Wagner has worked in the top ranks of the entertainment industry as a talent agent, studio executive, and producer. She co-founded Cruise/Wagner Productions with Tom Cruise, producing blockbuster hits like the “Mission: Impossible” franchise. Nicita worked as a successful talent agent for 5 decades before turning to production and consultation. He is currently Chairman of the American Cinematheque. Together, Wagner and Nicita offer insight into cultivating some of the most successful careers in Hollywood.

Kevin Goetz on Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita:

Let’s stop for a second and say this — taste, taste and taste, which is, you both have it. And I know it only because I’ve worked with you in different iterations. And your sense of material, your sense of what makes story work, your appreciation of research, quite frankly, and the respect for the audience has always been very impressive to me in what I do.

Throughout the interview, both Wagner and Nicita emphasized the importance of looking beyond individual deals to focus on building sustainable careers for their clients. Nicita explained:

“Each decision is supposed to not make you rich. Worry about that later. It’s supposed to expand opportunities so that if you do this, you’ll have more opportunities. And if you do the next one, you have even more opportunities.”

Wagner added her perspective on what made her successful as an agent:

“I became the agent I always wanted to have. And I saw myself as an advocate.”

The Changing Landscape of Hollywood

Both Wagner and Nicita offered their thoughts on the current state of the entertainment industry and its future. Wagner observed:

I think movies aren’t going away and there’ll be a renaissance for film. I just don’t think that movies are at the center of our culture the way they used to be. It used to be that movies defined culture or reflected culture.

Nicita added:

We’re all going to be fine because human beings want stories told with visual representations if possible. Therefore, there will be a consistent appetite. The technology and the culture will stagger along trying to figure out how to get these stories with visual representations to the audience. But the audience is there.

Broadway and Beyond

Wagner has recently turned her attention to Broadway producing. She shared details about upcoming projects, including a stage adaptation of High Noon:

More than thinking we are doing High Noon for Broadway next year. It’s the playwriting debut of an extraordinary screenwriter, Eric Roth. It really was an allegory for the blacklist. And if you transpose that to our time…Eric has written an extraordinary script.

Paula Wagner and Rick Nicita’s careers offer a unique, insider perspective on the genesis of some of Hollywood’s biggest names. Wagner’s journey from actress to top agent, then to successful film producer and now Broadway impresario, demonstrates her versatility and understanding of the creative process. Nicita’s legacy as a powerhouse agent and his transition to production and consulting highlight his expertise in talent management. Together, their experiences at CAA, Cruise/Wagner Productions, and beyond provide for a fascinating look at how stars become stars.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes Oscar-winning director, producer, and actor, Ron Howard.

In this special 50th episode of Don’t Kill the Messenger, host Kevin Goetz interviews legendary actor and director Ron Howard. Ron Howard’s extraordinary career spans over six decades, starting as a child actor on The Andy Griffith Show and Happy Days before emerging as one of Hollywood’s most successful and versatile directors. His directorial achievements include critical and commercial successes such as Splash, Cocoon, Parenthood, Apollo 13, A Beautiful Mind (for which he won the Academy Award for Best Director), Rush, Thirteen Lives, and the upcoming Eden. In this intimate conversation, Howard discusses his remarkable journey, his philosophy on maintaining artistic vision while always respecting the audience’s point of view, and his experiences working with some of Hollywood’s biggest names.

Ron Howard on loyalty:

So to me, my loyalty first and foremost is to, what I hope is this intersection between my sensibilities, the project, and an audience. And that’s where your work comes in so significantly. But I don’t believe that I know what’s going to be a hit. I am not a brilliant marketing guy, that is more of a Michael Rosenberg, and Brian’s very gifted in that way as well. But the one thing I have control over is the storytelling and using those materials that I’ve been able to gather through the filming to try to land the plane, you know, to make sure that it reaches the audience. It’s a communication. It’s meant to achieve some connection with the audience. And once I’ve done that to the best of my ability, it works out better with some films than with others. But I can always move the needle toward that connection so that I feel that, well, if an audience member chooses to watch, there’s a really high percentage chance here that they’re going to enjoy it, that they’re going to appreciate it. They’re not going to feel like they wasted their time.

One of the most memorable experiences in Howard’s early directing career was working with the legendary Bette Davis. At just 25 years old, Howard found himself directing Davis in a television movie. He recounts the initial tension, with Davis insisting on calling him “Mr. Howard” until she decided whether she liked him or not.

Howard recounts a memorable experience with Bette Davis:

At a certain point, late in the day, she was having trouble with this one exit, the timing wasn’t right. And I suggested that she leave, I don’t know, either earlier or later, and hesitate before she got to the door and turn around and, and go or something. And she says, oh no, that won’t work. I, that’s, no, that’s not, I, I, no, that’s, that’s a bad idea. And I said, well, would you just try it for me? And she said, well, certainly I’ll try it because you know, I’ve always been the director’s kid. I’ll try anything. So we tried it. We got through the rehearsal, and she did the move, changed the timing, and immediately turned around and said, you’re right. That works better. Okay, let’s shoot it. We shot it. She did it that way. It went well. We finished out the day. When it was over. I said, well, Ms. Davis, you’re wrapped great first day, thanks, I’ll see you tomorrow. And she said, okay, Ron, see you tomorrow. And she patted me on the ass.

Winning the Oscar for A Beautiful Mind

Howard vividly recalls the night he won his Oscar:

This is a kind of wild, Kevin, because there was a number of things that went on. First it was a relief because people sort of expected me to get it, but it had been expected that I would be a candidate for Apollo 13, and I wasn’t nominated.

He also shared an insider story about Mel Gibson presenting the award:

So I went up, I did remember my speech, more or less. I did that. And on the way out, I said to Mel, show me that fricking card. I might not have said frick. And he showed it to me, and thank God it had my name on it. So, oh man, it was a good, it was a good moment.

Balancing Art and Audience

One of Howard’s strengths as a director is his ability to create films that are both artistic and audience-pleasing. He explains his perspective on this balance, emphasizing the importance of understanding and respecting the audience while maintaining artistic integrity. He explains:

Well, it is a dance, and it must be undertaken with real thought and consciousness. Because the audience, of course, they know what they like and they know what they don’t like. They don’t necessarily know why. It begins with art. It begins with a desire to communicate something. Whatever the tone, whether it’s silliness and fun, look, everything carries a theme with it and a set of ideas, or it won’t even register with an audience.

Howard emphasizes the importance of understanding audience feedback:

When you start sharing it with an audience, the challenge is to understand what the questions are and what the answers could be and how they could help you. The question is, what do you think? Look, it’s a little bit like if you tell a joke at a party and you don’t tell it very well, it doesn’t get much of a laugh, but you know there’s something funny there. Maybe the next time you tell it better and it does get a laugh. So the spirit of the joke, the idea of the joke remains the same, but the delivery improved. So this is really about understanding how the ideas are being delivered and what it’s adding up to. And when you get the answers back, it’s sometimes it’s pretty heartbreaking to you as a creative person. But if you understand the information, the feedback that you’re getting, you then get to make a value judgment. You get to make a decision.

Ron Howard’s career is a testament to his enduring talent, adaptability, and passion for storytelling. From his early days as Opie on The Andy Griffith Show to winning an Oscar for A Beautiful Mind, Howard has consistently delivered compelling narratives across a wide variety of genres. His ability to balance artistic vision with audience expectations has resulted in an acclaimed body of work that resonates with both critics and viewers. Ron Howard remains a well-loved and innovative figure in Hollywood, always seeking to push the boundaries of filmmaking while maintaining a deep respect for the audience.

For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, a

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes legendary actress, Sharon Stone.

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz sits down with his longtime friend and Hollywood icon, Sharon Stone, for an intimate and revealing conversation about her life, career, and the challenges she faced in the entertainment industry.

Kevin Goetz on Sharon Stone:

She’s become one of my best friends. Both Neil and I are the godfathers of her children. We are an integral part of each other’s lives and we are the family that we have chosen for each other. You know, I always say there’s a season, a reason, and a lifetime in friendships. And we are clearly a lifetime. I’m not going to give you her bio because her name is simply enough.

Humble Beginnings

Sharon discusses her difficult upbringing in Meadville, Pennsylvania, where her family struggled financially. She reflects on learning to shoot a gun at age five, and growing up working class. Sharon shares:

“We were broke, and Miss Crawford County was a sub-pageant of the Miss America Pageant. And by winning Miss Crawford County, I got a partial scholarship to college. And I also had an academic scholarship because I was going to college at age 15. So, it really helped because my dad was a factory worker who worked swing shift an hour away from home. So this was a hardscrabble upbringing.”

Kevin notes that he has always seen Sharon as a character actress locked in a leading lady’s body, and they discuss some of her most memorable character roles:

“It is so the truth about me, that’s why the films like Casino, Basic Instinct, or even The Muse are films that are so right for me. We’re looking at Cassavettes once again, we’re looking at that familial understanding of work. When we look at The Muse, we’re looking at Albert Brooks who is about the work. He’s not about anything else. When we look at a Casino, we’re looking at Martin Scorsese. It’s about the work. When we look at Basic Instinct, we’re looking at Paul Verhoeven. It’s about the work.”

Working with Woody Allen and James Caan

Sharon shares her experience working as an extra on Woody Allen’s “Stardust Memories” and how her part was expanded after impressing the director and cinematographer.

Sharon on landing her first movie role:

I was sitting there and I was having the time of my life. And so, I was there for a few days and then someone came and talked to me and they said, look, they’ve seen the dailies. They can’t pay you what you’re making as a model, but Mr. Willis and Mr. Allen think that this is really where you belong on a movie set and they’d like to ask you to stay for a couple of weeks. How would you feel about that? And I said, I feel great about it. And they said, they want to expand your part. Are you willing to do that? You won’t make what you’re making modeling. I said, I’m willing to do it, and thanks very much. And so they upped the part.

She also discusses her instant rapport with James Caan on the set of a Claude Lelouch film:

And then I had got in bed with Jimmy and the whole scene was me in bed with Jimmy and he flirted with me like crazy. And I was like, keep it to yourself pal. And we just got this repartee going. So we got along like a house on fire and for his entire life, he looked after me.

In Part One of this two-part interview, Sharon Stone opens up about her journey from a small-town girl to a Hollywood icon through talent, perseverance, and commitment to her craft. Through this candid conversation with her close friend, Kevin Goetz, listeners gain an intimate look at the person behind the persona. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.

Don’t Kill the Messenger welcomes blockbuster director and producer, McG.

In this episode of “Don’t Kill the Messenger,” Kevin Goetz sits down with director and producer, Joseph McGinty Nichol, better known as McG. They discuss McG’s journey in the entertainment industry.

McG exploded on the scene with his directorial debut, Charlie’s Angels, which had, at the time, the highest-grossing opening weekend for a directorial debut. Through his production company, Wonderland Sound and Vision, McG has overseen the production of films and television shows such as Terminator Salvation, This Means War, We Are Marshall, and Family Switch along with The OC, and Turner and Hooch for television. In this personal conversation, McG also touches on his struggles with agoraphobia, and the importance of audience feedback in the filmmaking process.

Kevin Goetz on McG:

“You have extraordinary EQ. You are blessed with it. It is definitely a superpower of yours. And I am so glad that you opened up to me today and shared your stories and people are going to really respond to this. You are a very special man in my life, and I so respect you and your talent.”

First-Time Director with a Huge Budget

McG shares his experience directing his first full-length feature film, Charlie’s Angels, and how Drew Barrymore’s support was crucial in securing the job. However, the studio had doubts about his direction, as McG reveals:

I acted out the whole movie in real-time. I did all three parts. I stood up on the table and did it. Amy and Lucy were looking at me like I was outta my mind. Arms crossed, terrible nonverbals, shaking their head like, this guy’s dead to us. Drew’s there cheering me on. And then begrudgingly at the end, it was a real moment of Drew’s like he’s doing it or I’m not. And begrudgingly they hired me. And then the rest is Hollywood history as they say. And it worked out. And I was nearly fired off that movie six, eight times.

Kevin and McG discuss how music videos have influenced filmmakers like McG, Spike Jonze, and David Fincher, helping them develop unique styles and voices in the industry. McG explains, “It’s so insightful that you bring that up because what a class that was in the nineties and the way it would work was a record label would send out a song, the new Closer by Nine Inch Nails. And Fincher would write on it, Spike would write on it, I would write on it. F. Gary Gray would write on it. Hype Williams, Ratner, all these people that were part of this group, Francis Lawrence. And you can imagine how different the takes would be and how the final expression of what that is for the artist was it was all over the place. What you get from Michael Bay versus what you get from Spike Jonze, Michel Gondry. I mean those are really different expressions.”

Mentors and Influences

McG discusses his primary filmmaking influences, including Alfred Hitchcock and Quentin Tarantino. He also mentions a high school psychology teacher who played a significant role in his personal growth and career path.

McG on Alfred Hitchcock:

And then speaking of camera, I mean, you look at Rope, which they had to hide some cuts ’cause the film would run out, but meant to be a single shot. And I would just marvel at that whole thing. And to this day, I still try to build in one big oner in every movie I do.

The interview highlights the unique bond between the filmmaker and the audience researcher, showcasing how their collaboration can elevate a film’s success. The pair close by discussing McG’s upcoming projects, Way of the Warrior Kid and Uglies with Joey King. For the full conversation, check out the podcast episode here. And let us know your thoughts on the episode in the comments!

Don’t Kill the Messenger, hosted by movie and entertainment research expert Kevin Goetz, brings his book Audienceology to life. This bi-monthly podcast takes a peek behind the filmmaking curtain as Kevin talks with famous filmmakers, studio executives, stars, and other creatives about movies, filmmaking, audience test screenings, and much more.